Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Triumph Beyond Trauma. This is episode 10 and the last one for this season. When I first started the podcast, just a couple of months ago, I took a fast and loose approach to it all. I didn't really have any idea of like how many episodes I wanted or how long each episode would go for, or really anything in particular.

I just knew that I wanted to create something, you know, That people could listen to and they could get a little bit of hope or some inspiration, despite what they may be going through. As a retired first responder, I was and continue to be devastated at the amount of first responders and veterans that are dying by suicide. I have just seen literally a minute and a half ago on Instagram, another police officer dying by suicide today, uh, in America.

The numbers are astounding, but it's not just numbers.

These are people. These are people that have families, they have wives and husbands, they have children, they have parents, friends, and of course extended family. Their deaths impact so many people, and I want to talk about that. I want to talk about the depths of mental illness, of service related mental illness, and how others with mental illnesses have come through their trauma to be in a space where they are able to share their story.

To be able to say, yes, I've been there, this is what I've done and it's really helped me. Maybe it can help you too. Yes, I've been suicidal. I've made plans for ending my life, but I didn't go through with it or yeah, I've attempted to end my life, but it, I wasn't successful. And although at the time I was devastated about that, I can look back now and see what I would have missed out on.

That's not to say that the people that come on this podcast, and I include myself here. Don't continue to have a mental illness. This is something, for me personally, I know that I'm going to have for the rest of my life and I just do my best each and every day to show up for myself and my family because I know that's what I have to do.

So, while I would say I'm definitely in a stage of growth, um, this doesn't come with constant and consistent efforts on my part.

I believe that conversations are so important because we can all feel like we're the only ones we're the only ones that are going through PTSD or suicidality or other mental illnesses. The simple fact is, is that we aren't the only ones. Despite what organisations might say, I really feel like service related mental illness is so heavily stigmatized that it creates this isolation, this loneliness in us that it's difficult to talk about sometimes because you don't even know yourself what's going on, let alone trying to explain it to other people.

So if you haven't been there yourself, In particular with service related mental illness, it's not something that you can ever quite understand. And to be honest, I actually hope that you never do. It's brutal. Everything that you know, changes you, your identity, your beliefs, your ability to respond to very minor inconveniences, your moods and emotions, your friends, and for some people, it's actually their purpose to get out of bed, to give back to their community through their job.

So to lose your purpose through no fault of your own, through no choice of your own, through mental illness, that's really tough. So these are the reasons that I wanted to come here and create this podcast and be here with my wonderfully vulnerable and inspiring guests to tell you that you are not alone.

We are not the first ones. And unfortunately we will not be the last ones to go through not only mental illness, but everything else that comes along with it. This week's episode is about being a good friend. No matter whether you need to have a chat or to be the person who listens, conversations can change lives.

And that's the focus of today's episode. How to put your hand up and ask for one and how to be a supportive listener. So let's get into it.

INTRO

 Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores journeys of resilience and hope. I'm Rosie Skene a yoga and breathwork teacher and founder of Tactical Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mum to three beautiful kids and a medically retired NSW police officer with PTSD, I understand the challenges of navigating mental health in the first responder and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together, we'll uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter future. Whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or just a friendly reminder that you're not alone, Triumph Beyond Trauma has got your back.

You matter, and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life starts right here.

 I truly believe that a single conversation can change the trajectory of your life. I know that my life has been permanently changed through conversation. And the very first one That sticks in my mind, that's changed the direction of my life, was with my Dad he really loved a good chat, and unfortunately he's passed away almost 10 years ago now.

And I'm not actually sure if I ever told him this, but I was about 22 years old living in Sydney with Rob. I was working in hospitality and I had been since I was 16 and I just knew that it wasn't what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. So we were sitting there having a chat about how unhappy I was in that industry.

And he asked a question that just really stopped me in my tracks. He said, . Well, what do you want to do? And I replied, Oh, well, I think I want to join the New South Wales police. I think I want to be a cop. And his reply was, well, why don't you do it?

Those five words, well, why don't you do it has changed everything for me. Like of course it did. I'm pretty sure I applied the very next day and I marched out of Goulburn at 23 years old and I loved every single moment of policing until I didn't anymore. And this is where the next most important conversation came.

I remember all of these conversations so vividly. I was sitting on a beach with one of my oldest and dearest friends and we were watching the kids and we were talking about her partner at the time and his recent PTSD diagnosis. And I said something off the cuff like, Oh, I used to love going to work because I never knew what was going to happen.

And now I'm absolutely terrified of the job because I never know what's going to happen. And she replied, that's exactly what he says. And that was one of the very first moments that I knew that something wasn't quite right with me.

Did I act on it as quickly as I did with my dad? No, of course I did not. I did what most of us do and I denied it for just a little bit longer, until I couldn't anymore. And the next conversation I had was with one of my very, very good police friends who had gone off work due to his mental health. And I knew that he would know what to do.

So I sent him a message and I can't quite remember what my message said exactly, but it was along the lines of, I think I'm not okay. What do I need to do? He called me like pretty much immediately. And for a while we spoke and, um, he just told me to take a deep breath and to simply go and see my GP. We, you know, continue to chat and talked about how messed up we both were the message was clear though, like go and see my GP.

So I did. And I, of course I didn't do that straight away either, but I acted upon it because I knew that if I didn't, that things could get much, much worse for me. The last conversation that really sticks in my mind, especially in relation to my mental health journey, uh, was with another police friend that I'd made, uh, in Walgett in central West, New South Wales.

And we spoke shortly after my diagnosis and his words were also very clear and very simple and they were exactly what I needed to hear at the time and really put my mind and body at ease for the briefest moment because I had been struggling with, , An inner dialogue of you want to go back to the police.

No, you don't want to go back to the police. It's not good for you. And he basically said to me without any prompting from me was just never, ever go back. And without him knowing it, . He gave me the permission that I needed to allow myself to make the decision to leave that job that I Absolutely adored.

I loved it so much, but I knew that deep down, I just didn't have another shift in me. And if I did, I had no idea on how I would react to jobs. I was petrified of overreacting and possibly doing some harm or simply not reacting at all and putting my colleagues at risk through throughout my career. I was really focused on being an officer that could be counted on in any type of situation.

And I'd been told by my colleagues that I was a great cop to work with. I worked hard to break the stigma of mothers returning to work after having children. Um, I just really tried to work hard, full stop. And I was a weapons trainer. I found my passion here to keep other cops safe and the thought of going out there.

And not being able to keep my mates safe was a non negotiable for me. So I took my friend's advice and I never went back. And still to this day, I haven't stepped foot in a police station. And hopefully that will change soon. Hopefully that will change soon. But yeah, up until now, I haven't been back. The reason that I tell these stories.

Is because conversations can bring you so, so much, be it knowledge or clarity or new ideas or a new perspective. And I continue to have conversations all the time. Every month, I'll speak to my psychologist and these conversations in particular, just get all the things out of my head and add into the world.

And Sometimes when I say things out loud that I've been ruminating on or something that's been making me incredibly anxious, I feel so silly sometimes because I wonder why I've been worrying about it for so long. And, you know, sometimes I solve my own problems by simply asking the questions out loud or voicing an opinion and, thinking about what I've said.

, and. I resolve whatever's on my mind. The impact that conversations can have on mental health can be profound. The fact that you are here listening to this might mean that I can share information with you that you may not have ever heard before. This could be life changing for someone.

Conversations are incredible for sharing experiences and expressing yourself and to give and receive emotional support. And one of the greatest joys. Is to feel understood by another person. Engaging in meaningful conversations can give you that from understanding, we can then start to form connections and feel a sense of belonging.

And for those of us who often feel lonely or isolated, the sense of connection can be crucial for mental wellbeing. When you are in the dark depths of mental illness. Verbalising your feelings and emotions can be incredibly difficult. You can be cognitively impaired because of all of the other things going on.

And this can add to the overwhelm, having someone to talk to who can listen nonjudgmentally can really help in processing and validating the feelings and emotions that you have my own personal experience validation from my psychologist, that what I was feeling wasn't all in my head. It had an actual name.

I actually had, we have four names now. Um, but it was just the most relieving and emotional thing that has happened on my mental health journey. I remember feeling that weight shift, um, when I got my diagnosis. It gave me so much clarity. And finally, I had something to work with. The simple not knowing of what the heck was up was infuriating for me.

And to be honest, because my injuries are invisible, I wasn't even sure that anyone would ever believe me. Communication through conversation is only successful if the messages that we send are sent and received. This is an essential component of communication. Active listening and empathy are pivotal to supportive conversations.

Active listening involves giving your full attention to the person that you are speaking to, or who is speaking to you. So, like, no phones, devices, or other distractions. You need to be wholly present and in the moment and to show a genuine interest in what the person is saying. When someone feels genuinely heard, they're more likely to open up and share deeper emotions.

When they don't, the opposite is true. They can become frustrated and feel a lack of support. So to show empathy, you have to be able to display that you understand the feelings of another person. While you might not have ever felt them before, you can try by putting yourself in their position. And see how you would feel if you were going through that.

When we respond with empathy, we further validate the other person's emotions. Which, like I said, validation can be incredibly comforting. It helps people to feel accepted and less alone in their struggles. And in turn, fosters a sense of emotional support and safety.

Something that absolutely grinds my gears in relation to mental health is the stigma that's attached to it. And I guess in the world of first responders and the people that we deal with under the mental health act are at their absolute lowest point. There's no doubt about that.

So I guess that we figure in some way that if we disclose that we have a mental illness, we might end up like these people that we deal with on the street and get. Admitted immediately to the mental health ward and never be seen again, and that's just not the case.

In my personal experience, if I think, if I didn't tell anyone about my mental illnesses, that they probably wouldn't even know that I had them. I'm incredibly proficient at presenting well. I can put on a happy face. I can throw a dinner party with friends. And that's what I have struggled with the most because I presented so well, I didn't think that anyone would believe me.

Maybe I was wrong. Maybe I'm fine. I remember it all being very confusing time. And now I've come to realize through my journey and the journeys of many, many friends with mental illness is that we can all present so differently. We have seen what can happen over the last few years, especially I would say the last 12 to 18 months in relation to police and veteran suicides, they are increasing.

And if we don't address it and change the stigma around speaking up, I cannot see how things will get any better. I felt this within my own circle of friends and sometimes there's just not enough help available and sometimes people don't want the help. But the one thing that we can do is to talk more about mental health and be more open about it and be more understanding and be less judgmental.

Just as you would talk about going to the GP to get your yearly check-up or a blood test, we should feel comfortable and safe to talk about seeing a GP or a psych and talk about what's going on inside of our heads. We need to normalise this. For me personally, I didn't even know what the symptoms were to look out for.

It was such a taboo subject. My mental health literacy was non existent. I just thought mental illness presented as incredible outbursts, but I now know that it can be incredibly sneaky, very quiet, which is exactly the reason why I want to talk about it in a very public way. So others who may be unknowingly suffering can spot the signs, speak up and get help as early as possible.

AD

Big shout out to Tactical Yoga Australia, empowering first responders and veterans on their journey to enhance mental wellness through the transformative practices of breathwork, yoga, and mindfulness. Our mission is to guide individuals from burnout and anxiety to a state of calm, well rested happiness.

Life can often feel like a challenging rollercoaster, and we're here to help you navigate those ups and downs. Our commitment is to assist you in achieving self regulation and consistent, positive progress. Toward mental wellness for additional valuable resources and ongoing inspiration, visit tacticalyogaaustralia.com. Now back to the podcast.

 So with all that said, I want to give my five top tips for those needing to have a conversation and how to approach it. And then my five tips for those of you who may find yourself in the role of being the support person that someone has decided to confide in.

So my first tip for anyone who may feel like things might not be quite right and they want to talk about it. Is to be kind and to be patient with yourself.

Mental illness is exhausting, especially right at the start. There are a whole heap of things happening internally that you're starting to deal with and that can be like super overwhelming. So be patient and be kind and take yourself for walks outside and make yourself nutritious food if you are able to. Remember to shower and to brush your teeth. And those things might seem trivial, but they can make a world of difference to your mind and to your mood.

Number two is to identify a supportive listener. So this can actually be a little bit trickier than it sounds, especially for first responders and veterans, because if you found someone who's just an awesome human, but they don't have a lot of experience with mental health issues that we face, or even the issues that we face mental illness related or not, um, it can be difficult for them to empathise and support you.

If you do know someone who has a little bit of lived experience and they're traveling Well, maybe reach out to them and see if they're available for a chat. Chances are if they are in the right frame of mind They'll only be too happy to meet up or take the call I know when my friends and family from the cops reach out that I do my best to be supportive as possible because I know how difficult it is to go it alone. If you can't think of a person that you'd like to speak to your GP, providing that you have a good one, uh, can be your best bet. They can actually be really incredible and set you on a super clear path. And don't forget also, like if you're still employed or even if you're retired, um, that there are many services available to you, the EAP.

I know they get a bad rap, um, the employee assistance program, but they are there for you. Beyond blue offer a phone number and an online chat option, which is fantastic. Lifeline open arms. Um, these guys are all amazing and they're all there to support us as first responders and veterans. Uh, as always, I'll link to these and a few others in the show notes. So please take a look at that.

Number three, give the person a heads up that you want to discuss your mental health because, They need to prepare themselves for the conversation, or they need to have the opportunity to say that they actually don't have the capacity to have this conversation with you right now.

I know from personal experience, I've picked up the phone. Uh, and I actually thought it was like a, Hey, how you going? How's the family type of chat? And it really, really quickly turned into a very serious direction. And I didn't have the tools. Or the capacity in that instance to take care of my own mental wellness, let alone theirs.

And I probably really would have appreciated a message first. Um, and of course I still would have taken the call even if I did know, but that little level of preparedness would have been amazing at that time. So please give people the opportunity to prepare for or to decline the request.

Number four. If speaking verbally is difficult for you, and I know that it can be for a lot of people, , write the things that you're thinking and feeling down.

And you can do this over a couple of sessions. It doesn't have to be all done at once. It can actually be quite cathartic to put pen to paper and actually pen to paper, not, um, typing on your phone or a computer. And, and to get it all out that way, you can give the note to your support person to read so they can get a clear indication of what you're going through if you want. Or you could read off the note as well and leave bits out if you choose to do that.

But just make sure that you're as clear as possible and you can use terms in there such as I need, like I need support. I need to take a break. I need to do less around the house. I need less responsibility. I need to speak to a psychologist.

Number five is supporting boundaries, yours and theirs. If you've asked someone for their support, you need to respect any boundaries that they may have. They might not want to listen to your war stories, um, and you might not want to talk about individual situations. , so these conversations, Need to be open and you may find that they have questions for you, but you can just say, , I'm not comfortable in discussing this in depth right now, , and support your own boundaries. And this can be helpful because it allows you to both establish where you stand, , and how they can best support you while supporting themselves, which is super important.

So now for those in the position of being the support person, someone's asked you to help them or listen to them.

The very first thing is to be aware of your own capacity and your level of mental wellness. If you don't have the capacity right now, because you yourself are suffering, you likely won't be much help to the other person, but also you can do yourself a massive disservice by exacerbating your own Mental illness or your own things that are going on. So please be clear with the person, but also be kind, tell them that you are unable to have the conversation if that's the case, and maybe give them an alternative option such as lifeline or beyond blue or open arms. Or support them on a GP visit or give them an alternative time that maybe you can talk. Those of us with lived experience know that it can be incredibly isolating and to have someone that we've reached out to simply decline without reason can be super deflating and can likely mean that they don't do anything about it at all. So please politely decline or make an alternative time that you would feel more suitable for you or direct them somewhere else that they can get immediate assistance.

Number two is to be present in the conversation. Like I was talking about before, not just physically, but be there and actively listen to what the person is telling you. You might not need to do anything or give any advice. , they might not need your advice. They may just want someone to talk to just to get a few things off their chest and to make it all a little clearer in their own mind of what the next steps need to be.

You could also do a little bit of mental health research and find some support for your friend. Show your friend empathy and be genuine. They've sought you out because they feel safe with you and feel like you can be non judgmental. So please be that person. The R U OK? website is excellent place to start.

If you'd like to learn more about these types of conversations, they have the most amazing resources and I'll link to these as well in the show notes.

The third thing is to ask your friend open ended questions like, how are you feeling? What's been on your mind lately? How can I support you best? What do you need? And this will usually encourage a more direct response and will help you to better help your friend.

Number four is to encourage them to seek professional support. As nice and as lovely as it is to have an amazing friend to speak to, the burden on you as that person can be overwhelming. And professionals are there for this exact reason.

They have the tools, resources, strategies to be helpful, but also not to take on too much themselves. Professionals can diagnose and medicate where required and also give your friend a path to move forward on their journey to heal. You can even offer to help them, , by making the appointment, or you can support them during the appointment.

You can be inside or outside of the room. Uh, it can be incredibly difficult and daunting, , to take those first steps to speaking, To a professional about, , your mental health. And it can be nice to have someone there to support you during that. And also be respectful if they declined that offer.

The last one is to check in on your friend. So after you've had your conversation, you've parted ways, be sure to check in and see how they're feeling. If they've taken any of the action steps that you might've discussed, such as seeking professional help, or if there's anything else that they may need. The chances are is that they don't want to burden you too much.

Um, but they will be grateful for the call or for the message. It will also help them to be accountable. And, you know, they might've dismissed. making an appointment and this might put it back at the front of mind for them. So please check in. I really believe in the power of checking in and my friends will know this about me.

I, I don't know. I wouldn't say I'm over the top, but I do try to check in quite regularly with people. Um, it's not a one and done deal. You need to continue to show you support for your friends in the weeks, months, and years ahead. So whether you are the person who needs to have the conversation or the supportive person, someone has turned to it's incredibly important to be open and honest. So, and to be kind to yourselves and each other and respect each other's boundaries.

So that's it for this week. And for this season of Triumph Beyond Trauma, I'm going to take a short break, uh, from releasing new episodes for a couple of weeks, , just so I can get back on track with everything.

So please, uh, go back and listen to any of the episodes that you might have missed. Season two, I can't believe there's going to be a season two. Is gearing up to be amazing. Actually, I have quite a few guests lined up now. Um, and. I'm very excited. Just as a little spoiler, I have Sean Phillip from the Shaka Project as my very first guest for next season.

He is such a beautiful man and his is just the most amazing story. Uh, and I can't wait for you guys to hear it. And before I recap, I really want to thank you for your support. I just love getting messages from you guys after you've listened to a particular episode and how it's resonated with you. So please keep them coming.

It's definitely motivating me to keep going with the podcast. , if you or anyone that you know has a story that aligns with this show and you'd like to be a guest, please reach out to me via email. [email protected] or on the socials. Okay. Um, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. All of my links are in the show notes.

Like I said, at the top of the episode, conversations can change lives. The ones that we have about our mental health could literally save a person's life.

If you're in need of a conversation, please speak up, seek that person who is supportive or contact one of the support agencies that we've discussed. The links are all in the show notes. So with that said, let's have a quick recap of the five tips for each the person wanting the conversation and for the support person.

So for the person wanting the conversation,

Number one, be kind and be patient with yourself.

Number two, seek a kind and compassionate listener.

Number three, give your support person an indication of the subject matter of the conversation that you want to have.

Number four, if talking is too much, write down what you want to say in a note for your support person to read or for you to read to them.

And number five is to respect any boundaries that your support person has.

If you find yourself in the role of the support person,

Number one is to be aware of your own capacity to hold a conversation like this.

Number two, be present, listen actively and show empathy to your friend.

Number three is to ask them open ended questions.

Number four, encourage them to seek professional support.

And number five, please check in on your friend.

Let's have these conversations. Let's have them with our friends. Have them with our families and have them in our workplaces. If you notice that someone might be doing it a little tough right now, try to start a conversation and see where it leads.

If you're thinking that you might be overstepping, I can guarantee you, it's always better to ask, than to not ask,

and then to be left wondering, you know, after something happens, maybe I should have asked. So ask that question, ask, are you okay? Do you need my support? Do you need my help? Do you want to have a chat?

I hope you guys have a great day. Look after yourselves and each other and I'll see you next season.

OUTRO

  I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, make sure to hit subscribe so you never miss any new ones. We release fresh content every Tuesday. And while you're there, take a moment to leave us a review. I would genuinely appreciate your thoughts. Don't forget to connect with me on Instagram and Facebook at Tactical Yoga Australia and share this episode with your friends, family and workmates to spread inspiration.

Your support means the world. My name is Rosie Skeen, join me again next week for another empowering and positive episode of Triumph Beyond Trauma. Until then, be kind to your mind and trust in the magic of your consistent and positive efforts. Triumph Beyond your trauma is closer than you think. Have the best week.