INTRO

 Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores journeys of resilience and hope. I'm Rosie Skene a yoga and breathwork teacher and founder of Tactical Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mum to three beautiful kids and a medically retired NSW police officer with PTSD, I understand the challenges of navigating mental health in the first responder and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together, we'll uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter future. Whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or just a friendly reminder that you're not alone, Triumph Beyond Trauma has got your back.

You matter, and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life starts right here.

  Rosie Skene: Welcome to the podcast, Sean. Thank you so much for coming on.

Sean Phillip: No problem. Thank you so much for having me.

Rosie Skene: I'm so excited to talk to you because you're doing some really amazing things for not only men's mental health, but I know women's mental health as well. You're probably not intentional about that, but I personally love looking at all your stuff.

So thank you so much. I was wondering if we could start maybe just by talking about your history and how you've come to be where you are.

Sean Phillip: Yeah, absolutely. So I suppose my mental health journey started when I was when I was twelve years of age. And it started from a conversation with my father, and it was a conversation that I really look back on now, and I can pretty much sum up that this 10 minute conversation shaped where I am today.

And it's Uh, a big reason that I'm doing what I'm doing today and that conversation was he, he sat myself and my brother down and he, he looked us both in the eyes and we thought we were in trouble. We thought we were, we were getting a bit of a rap for something, but he sat us down and he said that, uh, you know, dad's sick.

My dad's unwell and as a 12 year old, I remember sitting there and the only real illnesses and sicknesses that I knew of were cancer and stroke. That took my, my grandparents a few years before. You know, I was really hyper vigilant when we sat down and he started to say, Dad's sick. And then he continues to talk and he said, Dad's got this thing, it's called depression.

And as a 12 year old, as soon as I heard that it wasn't cancer, I just switched off. I didn't, I didn't. It doesn't mean anything to me. He went on to say that, you know, it just means that sometimes dad's gonna be a really good dad, sometimes dad may not be a great dad, sometimes dad may not be here, um, and it's gonna be pretty tough, but, you know, dad's gonna get through it.

And, uh, again, ignorant 12 year old, I just thought, okay, well, it's not cancer, it's not a stroke, we should talk, uh, granddad and nan, so let's switch off. That's nothing. I don't know what this thing is, but he said that it's not going to take him away. So let's move on. And over the next couple of years, I really start to see the effect that this Being called depression had on him, had on my mother, had on myself and my brother and, you know, there would be days and weeks where, you know, I would just notice that dad was different.

It was really hard to connect with dad. He would often be really, really quiet. He'd often be really, really sad. And I'd start to understand this a little bit more, a little bit more and start to, I really realized that this thing that he called depression, although I wasn't taking him away, it was having a massive impact on him.

So, this went and years and when I got to the age of 15 and I started to experience my own mental health and started to experience feelings of, you know, not wanting to go to school and, you know, just being generally unhappy and, uh, you know, considering self harm and things like this, a really magical thing happened is that I was able to recognize what that was.

Or because I had that conversation with my father when I was five years old. So when I started to experience these feelings, not only was I able to recognize, Hey, this is, this is mental health. This is what dad has. But I was also asked, I was also able to say, okay, well, we can talk about it. And that means I can talk about it and that's probably the best gift that he's ever given me.

Um, I was able to go and speak to him and speak to mom and go to a doctor and get on a mental health care plan. And, um, you know, I was jumping, on medication at the age of 15, 16, and that was, I suppose, the start of my real mental health journey. Now, as anyone that's been in the, in, you know, or suffered mental health knows that You know, you can go on a mental health care plan and you may utilize medication or seek support.

Um, but, uh, unfortunately that doesn't make it all go away. Um, and something that's been with me every single day for the last 15 years. And, uh, you know, every single day since that first moment of suffering with mental health, whether it be really, Great mental health or, or really poor mental health too.

So that was essentially the, the start of it. That was, that was where I really started to understand what this thing was. And it really started to impact my life. And I can, you know, very, very proudly say that my father is still with us today, although he's, he's suffered a lot in his life. It's, I'm extremely grateful that he is still with us because he's been through a hell of a lot, but it's also created a relationship between him and I that we have this real connection when it comes to mental health.

We understand each other a little bit more than, you know, even my mother and I, we clash like hell. Nothing else. But, uh, you know, my father and I have this, this connection through mental health because we have this understanding of it as well. And this sort of empathy and I suppose personal contribution towards it too.

So, that really motivated me to want to try and get this conversation. And normalize the conversation because I couldn't see so many of my friends throughout high school that were suffering, were struggling, but just didn't talk, especially, especially men. And, uh, you know, post high school, I was lucky enough to get into fitness and personal training.

So that was my career before this and I, I opened a couple of gyms and I was a personal trainer for 13 years and a gym owner throughout Victoria and that was great, it was really good for, you know, my own mental health and my own sort of, you know, life and experience and career and stuff like that too, but throughout that period.

You know, that mental health was still there every single day, and although that I was, I was speaking about it, and although I was very open about my mental health, um, you know, there were still attempts throughout that, that period, there was still many, many months after months where I just didn't want to be here.

I went through what we talk about. Often, which is the crisis mode, or the crisis stage, and, you know, to put that crisis mode or crisis stage into a bit of a brief, it's essentially where somebody is completely comfortable and completely at ease with the thought of self harm or suicide, and it's a really scary place to be.

It's um, it's a really scary place and unfortunately, you know, as we sit here and talk today, there's many people across Australia, um, and the world that are in this, in this stage right now. So throughout that sort of crisis mode that I've been in before, you know, there was some really, really scary moments and some moments where, you know, if it wasn't for a little thing, I wouldn't be here.

Today, if it wasn't for some sort of miracle, I wouldn't be here today, but throughout those times as well, you know, it helped me understand that this is going to be a really hard battle when it comes to mental health, and it's going to be every single day, and I'm going to have to work on it every single day too.

So, uh, that's essentially the start of the whole progress of why I wanted to do it. I wanted more people to talk. I wanted more people to seek support. There was a stage where, you know, every single time I jumped on social media, I was seeing somebody else who was died by suicide. And it's, it's just heart breaking.

It's just awful. And it's just such a terrible. Real, uh, aspect of Australian life that we're living in that there's not enough attention through those people that we lose. Um, there's not enough love shown to people just in general in our life to, you know, just to possibly prevent that. As well, I think that's a really big subject that I really like to push.

And, you know, you probably said on our social media, I'm very much pushing, you know, just love people and love your mates and love your family and love your friends and show as much love as we possibly can, because we never know what today or tomorrow is going to bring. So, I suppose to answer your question, a very, very long, long term, that's my motivation right now today is that I've got a beautiful 6 year old daughter, Who's my best friend.

And She, you know, she inspires me every single day to get up and do this and, you know, continue to have these conversations and do this kind of work. But also, a big inspiration for me is that, you know, I want to be able to, in 10 years time, be out of work, you know, in 10 years time. The conversation around mental health is so strong, it's so normalised, um, that we're able to have it in schools, we're able to have it in sporting clubs or in the media, and that we're just working on the idea that, right, this is a very real thing, let's do what we can to change these statistics.

Um, to save our mates. It's another big thing. And just to continue this conversation on too. So, uh, yeah, there's, there's so many motivations there and so many reasons. Um, so many of my why's are directed towards my little story, um, which I'm happy to talk about, but it's, it's, It's definitely something that has carried my life over the last five years for the better.

You know, you would know yourself being in this industry. It's a heart breaking industry as well. You know, you put yourself out there to help people, but unfortunately, you know, the majority of I see come through the Shaka project, whether it be through just being a supporter or a customer or someone that wants to work with us.

Majority of those people are doing it because they've lost someone or they've almost lost themselves. So, you look at, you know, I used to run gyms, my customer base was people that wanted to improve themselves and get fit and you might lose a bit of weight for a wedding or occasion. Um, and then to create a shift from that to almost.

The complete opposite of people coming through to me and saying, Hey, I've just lost my husband, or, um, you know, I don't want to be here anymore. What would I do? It was a huge shift. It was a massive shift in my life and it was really tough and it still is tough, but it's, it's something that I have a massive passion for as, you know, a lot of people do in this mental health space.

And I think if we can just continue to. Uh, you know, really show that empathy for people, everyone, every single person that suffers or experiences poor mental health, and then we can really make a difference. So I hope that answers your question.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, it totally does.

Sean Phillip: Get into it. I've been talking for two hours, so.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, I love that. So, and so many of your why's are, are brilliant. If not very similar, the exact same as mine, you know, and I really love that your Dad sat you and your brother down and had that conversation. One of the topics I would like to talk about one day is talking about mental health with your children and you touching on that's really great because I know myself talking about I had to work out. My kids are so small. The boys were six and four, and my daughter was three months old when I was diagnosed. And it's sort of finding that time when it's, um, it's not a big scary thing and putting it in terms that they understand and how do you have the conversations, you know?

So at 12 years old, obviously, that's a great age because you can sort of understand, even though you checked out, um, a little bit, it's a good age, but, It's, it's so important to involve your family in your journey as well, because you can't do it alone. And, and just even if they aren't supportive, you know, like just them knowing they can be supportive in that way. Like just have a little bit of empathy and understanding for you and what you might be going through. And then even for yourself. You know, having your own troubles, like you said, and then having that relationship with your dad and him having that understanding of how shit it is.

Yeah. Obviously it would bring you nice and close together and, and you have that, you know, thing that you can talk about together. So yeah, that's amazing. I think that's such a beautiful thing out of such out of something that's not great at all, but you know, like something beautiful can come from it.

Sean Phillip: You're absolutely right. I always, my dad's a very, very cool. So it just sits there and goes a bit shy. Um, you know, the impact of that conversation had on on me and my family, but it's a really scary thing, you know, um, especially being a father, you know, my daughter looks to me, looks at me as Superman, you know, I'm the strongest man in their life, I'm, I'm dad, you know, what if I've got a problem, dad will fix it.

And so to be able to sit there and say, hey babe, you know, like sometimes dad gets sad and sometimes daddy might be having a really bad day and sitting there and crying and, and, uh, being open with, you know, when I was, when she was getting a little bit older, I was petrified of that. I was like. You know, this girl thinks I'm Superman, but, you know, I've got days where I feel like I'm definitely not Superman.

And then I start to, you know, remember back to that conversation that I had with Dad and what impact it had on me. And, uh, you know, I think it's really, really powerful to be able to have those conversations with them when they're young. Um, and, you know, it doesn't change the way that she looks at me. It doesn't change the way that she feels about me.

And, uh, you know, if anything, I think the It brings us a lot closer. Even, you know, when I was putting her to bed last night, we had a really beautiful conversation. She was telling me that, you know, there was a girl in her class that was saying mean things to her and, you know, as a parent that breaks your heart because you're just like, Oh my God, who hurt you?

I was able to say, Hey, look, you know, most people that are saying mean things might be hurting themselves and, and, um, you know, I use this terminology with her that people throw rocks at shiny things, and I told her that she's the shiniest thing in the world, so that took her a little bit to understand what it meant, but, um, we were able to sort of have that conversation, and then I was able to talk about, you know, how did you feel when this happened, and, um, you know, it's okay to feel a little bit sad when that happens, and try and understand sort of her point of view and allow her to talk, and I think that's, that validation, I talk about validation a lot, and what Dad does to me, As well when it comes to validation is amazing and I've got a bit of a story about that and I think which is something that a lot of people can take a lot from and that was last year I was going through a bit of a rough patch and I remember sending a really really long text message to my mum and my dad separately.

And, uh, my mum's a fixer. So she, uh, you know, whenever I go to her about something she'll send me like a list of a thousand things to do just to fix it. And, you know, that's, that's, that's fine, but it stresses me out. So I sent the message to mum and dad, just going through all my feelings, uh, what I was experiencing, how I was going, what I was going through.

And my mum replied back with, Uh, Sean, you need to get back to focusing on work, get back to the gym, get back to this, get back to that. And I read it and it didn't stress me out. I thought, oh, okay, well I'm already suffering all this stuff and now I have to do all this sort of stuff. And about 10 minutes later, my dad replied back to me and uh, he said three words and all he said was, I get it.

And as soon as I read those three words, You know, this, this weight off my shoulders was enormous and I was able to say, you know, thank God somebody gets it. Somebody understands what I'm feeling is real and what I'm experiencing is actually valid. And I think that's a really, really important thing.

Whenever I do presentations and events, I talk about this a lot, about when we ask a question or when we check in with a friend or a family member. Um, validating those emotions, even if we don't understand it, like you said before, you know, just validating it and say, Hey, I'm not experiencing what you're experiencing, but if you're experiencing it, then it's absolutely real.

And that can allow people to just feel a little bit safer, but feel like that what they're experiencing really does matter and that they can go and seek support about it, or they can go talk about it. The majority of us, yeah, majority of us. And these things that are going on in life and we always say someone has it worse or it's not that important or it's not that big, but you know, when it comes down to whatever you're experiencing that matters enough to talk about.

It matters enough to seek support about, and it matters enough to, you know, take action on as well with, with, with whatever you're going through. So I think that's really important. So yeah, with, with, with kids, it's really tough. I actually wrote a book for my daughter last year, um, all about feelings. It's called Riley's Balloons.

So I think that's, that was my sort of conversation with her. that Dad had with me So I'm hoping she'll, she'll keep that book forever and she can, she can read it whenever she goes to bed. And it's just a little bit more of understanding her feelings and knowing that it's okay to talk about her feelings. And it's very, very kid, kid friendly.

It's a rabbit bouncing through the forest with all her friends. So it's, it's something that I really wanted to do for her just to make sure she knew going forward throughout her life that these feelings are very, very real and it's okay to experience them.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, that's so beautiful. I think, you know, when you say that you want to open up the conversation, that's exactly how we do it is talking to kids because they're going to grow up and they're going to have their friends and they're going to make it okay for their friends to have those feelings as well and have that. Empathy and support for them and even being able to pick it up with their friends, especially like my son's 13 now, my oldest one, and he's in high school and he has, you know, very real high school problems and friends and all the stuff that goes on with that. And I do the same thing as you, you know, like if someone projects something onto him, I'm like, you know, is it actually you mate?

Or is it something that might be going on in their life? And they're not sure how they can deal with it. So they take it out on someone that they know is still going to be their friend tomorrow. And yeah, so, and it, , you know, it's not always about you. It's, you know, it's, it's not always you.

There's something else going on there and, and that helps you, especially the kids in high school, you know, and I know you do a lot of work in high schools.

Sean Phillip: Absolutely. And I think, I think high schools in a really. But those years right now, and there's a really unique spot where, you know, when I was in high school, the mental health conversation was non existent.

We used to have a counselling area at school, but I suppose as students, when we saw people go in there, Our first instinct was, you know, they're, they're in trouble or they're, um, you know, they're a little bit crazy. Now that was our first instinct. We didn't know about mental health or depression or anxiety or anything like that.

And, you know, fast forward 10, 15 years, when we look at high schools now, whenever I go into high school now, they've got all these different services. They've got all these different, program set up for wellness and stuff like that too. But when it comes to the mental health of kids aged between 12 and 18, there's still a massive gap there.

There's a really, really big barrier. And one of the biggest influences there is social media. You know, social media can be amazing. It can be something that can You know, get a message extremely loud, like, you know, our social media is the reason that I'm able to do what I do because we've been able to push so many positive messages, but I've recently got off my personal Instagram because it's just so.

There's so many negative stuff out there at the moment, and so you've got to take a break every now and then. But, yeah, I think it's a really, really important time throughout high school to have those conversations. I remember when I was in high school, we always used to have guest speakers in, and they would always be talking about drugs and alcohol and the impact of these different things.

And I remember sitting there and going, OK, well, this is, OK, I get this, but I'm in year nine. Like, I haven't had a drop of alcohol. I don't ever know how to get drugs or what drugs are. Bye. At the same time, I had a dad at home that was suffering from depression and nobody was talking about it. So, I think it's really important to, even if we can get into schools and say, Hey, this thing is very, very real.

These are some signs you can look out for, whether it be for yourself or for somebody else, but also for young boys to, you know, Have that conversation with their mates so that they can feel safe in the environment that they're in, whether it be at school or just in their friendship group, that they can have something traumatic happen in their life and some boys are still scared to cry in front of their mates.

I used to do it all the time, you know, I remember in year 10 when I'd had a really bad day and I started crying in front of my best mate and the names that he called me were, I don't think I could ever repeat on the podcast, but I'm still best mates with him and he's apologised for that. You know, the stands a little bit more now, but I think that was just the sign of the times and so fortunate that hasn't changed the whole lot, but it's something we can change.

It's something that we can have those conversations with our, with our young men and women about. The changes that are going to happen in their life and, and the impacts of drugs and alcohol when they do leave high school or if they're in high school, when it comes to mental health and all those different things too, so, I think kids in high school these days are good at a lot.

Other than what you and I probably did, because of social media, because of the pressures of everything that's happening throughout the world. So I think we need to show them empathy and a bit of understanding too. There's a bit of a hatred on young kids when they get up to no good, which I don't think is really beneficial to them whatsoever.

I think we need to, you know, try to embrace them and try to understand what they're going through, except for telling them they're just doing wrong. I don't understand what's happening and what's going on at home and what they're going through. I don't understand what's going on at home.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. A lot more understanding and, you know, something kids are kids and they do some weird stuff, but it's something that I really remind myself and I tell my friends the same thing when they're like losing it a bit at their kids, especially the teenagers. It's their first rodeo. Like, it's all of our first rodeos really, but they don't even have their brains aren't even fully formed yet.

Um, and, and that's the other thing. You know, they could be going through these things like yourself and having mental illness at a really young age and their brains still haven't fully matured into an adult brain. So, to have that on top of everything else that they've got to go through, like you said, social media and outward expectations and school expectations from their teachers and their home. And then, you know, their home life isn't that good. Like, there's a lot for kids that they have to deal with these days. And it's certainly a lot more than what I had to deal with.

Sean Phillip: Yeah, a good way to look at it is, you know, I think everyone. and say that they've, they've looked on their Facebook memories of like a post they did 10 years ago and they think, why, what was I thinking?

Why would I post something like that? Because back then it seemed right, back then that's, that's what we thought and that's our ideology and that's what we're going through and all these sort of things too. So we'll be younger, we're probably a little bit dumber. Yeah. So we were, you know, Grinding to ourselves and the children and stuff like that too.

It's the same thing with the kids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you think who has a 15 year old doing this or a 16 year old doing this. Because that's, that's That's what they're thinking. That's what they're going through. So, I think if we do show that, that understanding and that empathy, you know, we do a little bit of work with youth justice and that's, uh, I mean, that could be a whole new podcast about what's going on in New South Wales and Queensland with, with the youth, youth crime and all that sort of stuff too.

But, um, there's so many different avenues we can go through when it comes to mental health. And these different things and what these kids have experienced throughout their life, you know, there's some kids that are 15 that, you know, both their parents are in jail. They've grown up around drugs and alcohol every single day of their life.

And then, you know, we wonder why they're, they're going down the dark roads, you know, that's, that's pretty evident. So it's, uh, it's something pretty scary, but if we have that empathy and understand for these kids and try and just ignite these different conversations, then we can really make a difference in them.

Rosie Skene: I totally agree. Like the kids, that's where we've got to start with. Absolutely. Is there anything in particular that helped you on your mental health journey? Like I know that you said, you know, you're a personal trainer and you worked out a lot. Is there anything else that you found has helped you, especially in those moments where you have been suicidal and you've said that you've had those little glimmers, like there's just been that one thing that's changed your mind.

Sean Phillip:  There's probably not, there's probably not one, you know, uh, thing that has been able to sort of keep me going, you know, we have our motivations, we have our drives, um, we have our reasons, reasons to stay and stuff like that too. But, um, I think the idea of something next is really big for me, so,. If I go back to, it's a story I don't mind telling because it's, , it's pretty impactful on me, but one of my, , one of my attempts

it was about eight years ago, and, , yeah, about eight years ago, I was, uh, I was in my car, and I was in this crisis mode, I spoke about before, you know, I, I had this ideology that, you know, I, I had no care in the world for if I was to self harm, or if I was to suicide, , I wasn't scared of that, I wasn't scared of, of harming myself, or of the pain of harming myself, And, uh, you know, it would get to the time where, you know, if I went down to Melbourne and I stayed in, you know, a high rise hotel, , you know, the first thing I would do is go to a window and think, it's a bit perfect, you know, a great place to do it.

and it was just like thinking, you know, what should we do tonight? It's like thinking who's playing for you on the weekend. That's how deep a lot of people are in right now and that's exactly what I was in. Um, every moment of every day I was just thinking about this and it was almost a moment, , in fact I remember this moment when I was sitting there and I kind of just accepted the fact.

I accepted it. It may not be today, it may not be tomorrow, but I will die by suicide. And at the time, yeah, I think I can think back to it now, and I'm like, that's unbelievable. But at the time, I just accepted it, and I didn't, I didn't accept it going, oh my God, that's terrifying. I just said, yep, that's just the way it's going to be, and this, this Sunday afternoon, I was in my car, and I was sitting there, and I was on the side of the road, and , I was just in tears and really, really distraught. And I remember looking up at my front windscreen and about 50m away was a really, really big tree on the side of the road. And that mindset and that thought, again, I went through my mind and first thing I thought was, this must be a great place to do it.

You know, all you have to do is just go straight, go as fast as you can, and then stop. , and, uh, you know, that's exactly what I did. I put put to the floor, both hands in the steering wheel, , closed my eyes and what felt like, you know, five minutes, took five seconds, , and then massive crash. All I remember was.

Opened my eyes and the first thing I realized was why am I still alive? Um, and then, uh, the second thing I said to myself was, You are an absolute idiot. And I may have thrown a few swear words in between, You are an idiot. But, um, I wasn't saying it because of what I've just done. I was saying it because I couldn't even get this right.

You know, I was so mad at myself. All I had to do was go straight and get this free. And I couldn't even do that. You And that was a really big pivotal moment for me because I sat there for about 30, 40 minutes, um, you know, screaming at myself, hating myself so much, uh, for, for not being able to do this.

And then I had a bit of a shift of, okay, why didn't this work? Why didn't this, this happen? You know, it was, it was super straightforward, go straight and do this. And I realised that I've, I've missed this tree. I'm, I'm about, you know, 25 centimetres away from this tree and shrubs and So when I got out of the car, I walked around the back of the back of the car and I saw that when I was parked, I couldn't see over this ridge that was just before the tree off the road and as I went over this ridge, I bounced off a ditch that was just behind the tree and just knocked myself out of the way of the tree.

And, um, You know, it's the kind of stuff that you see on movies, the kind of stuff that, you know, if I do that again today, it just wouldn't happen. And I'm not religious whatsoever, but when I saw that happen, I thought, alright, there's got to be a reason there. There's got to be, there's got to be something that that means.

There's got to be a reason that, you know, this has happened and I'm still here today. And, um, You know, that was, that was eight years, that was eight years ago and I was able to go and seek some support after that and, you know, it was a really pivotal moment for me because a couple of years later when my daughter was born, I finally understood the reason.

You know, I finally understood, you know, why I miss the tree I didn't miss the tree until I could do all this work, although I love this work. I love being able to do all these, uh, these different, you know, events and travel and all that sort of stuff. I miss the tree because a couple of years later, my daughter's going to come into the world and she's going to bring happiness to everyone else.

And she has this really, really special ability that, , you know, every single room that she's in, she just makes people smile. And, , you know, when I see her do that. I just think back, right, that's why I missed the tree that's why I missed the tree and so I suppose when I was sitting in that car, when I was looking ahead, I didn't see that future.

I didn't see her. , and that's the biggest impactful thing for me that I talk about as much as I possibly can because a lot of people when they're in that moment of making that decision to take their own life, They don't see that. They don't see their future. And that's not their fault, that's just how deep they're in.

So, when I go to events, or when I talk to football clubs, or work in communities, or, or, , or work sites, I talk about that a hell of a lot, because if I can embed that into their, into their minds, and if one day they're in that moment where they're, they've made the decision, , they're sitting in that car, metaphorically, , That can trigger in their brain and say, Hey, my future needs me, and something that I can't see just yet, that needs me here, and it's going to be really, really hard.

It's gonna be really, really tough, but that needs me, so I think that's probably the biggest trigger for me and the biggest, , reason why I'm still here and keeps me going, , since then, unfortunately, I have gone back into, into crisis mode a few times and, , I have, you know, I've gotten close to that too, and every single time I've been sitting there, I've made the decision, and I think back to that, right, I've got my daughter, she's beautiful, she's my life, I've experienced X amount of years with her, what's next?

I want to see her get married, I want to see her, , you know, go through life, and go to high school, and experience all these different things, and, you know, do life with her, and that's enough to pull me out. , unfortunately, some people aren't that lucky. , you know, we see all the time of losing mothers and fathers.

It's heart breaking. It's absolutely heart breaking. That's probably what affects me the most. , when I see that we've lost fathers or mothers, because I know that in that moment, they're definitely thinking about their kids. But, It's just that little, that extra inch that they need to get them over that line and say right, I need to go home, or I need to go to the hospital, or I need to talk to someone, or I need to go seek some support.

And, , unfortunately, we can't get everyone across that inch, , so I think the importance of talking about Our future and talking about what tomorrow could bring, , is really important. It's something that, , hopefully people can have in the back of their mind and subconsciously say if they are ever in that moment, they can just get over that inch and they can just say, right, I want this pain to stop.

You know, my future does need me, so I need to go and seek some support or call the hospital if I need to, call someone to come and get me, , and get them across that line. So, I suppose that's, that's my, , that's my reason, that's my motivation and, and that's, that's something that. It keeps me going every single time I get in love is, is, , you know, that, that pretty little girl that I want to see her, although I don't want her to have a boyfriend ever, that scared the hell out of me.

It's not allowed. She still says I don't have a boyfriend somehow. That's cute. Although, you know, that scared the hell out of me. And even her going up scared the hell out of me. I don't want to miss it.

Rosie Skene: Just on what you were talking about before. The whole motivation of even starting a podcast like this is for that, to give people the hope, and inspiration, I guess, that might not be tomorrow,, but there are really good days that you can have in your life that are ahead that you don't even know about yet.

And I love what you said, like your future needs you, something in your future needs you. And, , and that's so, it's just so special. And I personally, I've never, , been in that situation, which I'm really grateful for. So I can't even begin to think about how hard that is. , every time I hear about someone, especially, , you know, in the area that I like to be in police and veterans and the suicide rates, there are, you know, A bad, , and what must be going through their minds at that moment would be horrendous.

So if we can, like you say, you know, have those voices and normalise it for people and let you like, let everyone know that, you know, there is, there's good days ahead as well. You know, it might not be easy, but there will be. So I really thank you for sharing that story.

Sean Phillip: Yeah, thank you. I think it's so important just to, , you know, whatever it might be, you know, it might be children, it might be, , you know, just some little moment.

I remember I've had moments just with, you know, my best friend, we were sitting there having a drink, watching the footy, , and we, you know, start laughing and going crazy about something ridiculously, you know, silly and, you know, Just in that 30 seconds you feel just amazing, you feel incredible, you feel on top of the world and everything else you just forget about for a little bit.

and they're the moments that, you know, we don't see, we don't see in the future. That's, that's one thing no one will ever have the ability to have. So, if we can give people that hope to say, hey, Tomorrow might be your best day of your life, or in five years you might have a, have a three year old daughter running around, or a three year old son, , you know, looking at you like you're the best person on the planet.

they're the moments, and they're the hope, I suppose, that if we can keep encouraging, , then, you know, hopefully we can start to change those. And, , and save more people. And I have a, I've got one of the ambassadors that she's, , she lost her husband, , about two years ago. And, um, she's got, well, like, they, they have two, two beautiful little girls as well.

And, and she's always said to me, you know, it's not that, , He wanted to die, it's that he just didn't want the pain anymore, and I think that's, although it's a really hard thing to think about, it's so true, because the majority of people that do die by suicide, they don't, they don't want forever, foreverness, you know, they don't want to actually not be here anymore, , but sometimes that pain is just too much, , and it can be really tough for people to understand, it can be really tough for people to Think, well, why, why wouldn't you just go seek help and why wouldn't you just do that?

But, you know, it's a, it's a really, really tough thing to be vulnerable. it's a very, very tough thing to go and seek support and talk about what's going on. a lot of that has to do with that stigma that's been created for the last, you know, 150, 200 years around mental health. We don't talk about it.

Yeah. So I think we're in a, an amazing space right now where we can take that stigma, throw it out, create a new one, , and, and really start talking about it too, so that's, . I think we're in that pivotal moment, my grandfather passed away about 20 years ago and, and my dad always tells me that if he was still around today and he knew that my job was to go around the country talking about his feelings, he'd smack me one, like he would me.

There's no way, there's no way that his, you know, his grandson would be doing that. Yeah, that doesn't make him a bad man, that just means it. Yeah, he grew up in a time where you don't talk about your feelings, especially as a man, you know, you've got, you get on with it, you go out there, you work, you know, he, , he did some work in World War II, so he had that ideology of go out there, you know, be a man, be strong, , and the only reason he had that is because the father before him had that, you know, the father before him had that, so, yeah, ignorance is taught down the line, , and the best thing about that is that we can reteach and we can, , create new stigma.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. And how beautiful that your dad was the one to do that to, you know, yeah.

Sean Phillip: that's exactly what I did. As much as I tell him, he can't accept that, but, um, yeah, he definitely did for sure.

Rosie Skene: So I think that's a really, , great way that we can start talking about the Shaka project and, and the amazing work that you're doing there. Um, so when did you start up?

Sean Phillip: So it started in, , in thousand 19. , and, , throughout running all the gyms and, and personal training and stuff, I honestly did fundraisers for, for mental health. So we did like a 23 hour treadmill challenge. We did like a pushup challenge, , you know, just different fundraisers.

I just wanted to keep raising funds and awareness. And I remember one day, , actually it was after the 24 hour treadmill challenge. We raised a pretty significant amount of money. , for a charity and I won't name the charity. , but, when I donated this money, it was about 10, 000 bucks we, we raised.

When I donated these, these funds, I got a really generic email back. and it just said, thanks for your donation. And I looked at it and I remembered back to that. We had people, you know, showing their vulnerability. , I was in tears, 23 hours of the 24 hours., you know, people were giving up their hard earned time, hard earned money.

And we just got this email back and. I saw that and I thought, right, that kind of sucks. , what can I do to make more of a personal impact that I can see personal, , impact on people, not just in where I was living, but everyday Australians, the person who runs a milk bar, the bloke who's a footy coach, , you know, the mum that has, you know, a single mother of four kids doing her best.

, you know, all these different things, how can we have that, that personal impact on it? So. I had this idea for a long time and it pondered and it went through my brain a million times. What can I do? How can I do it? And then I realized, what about if we make a conversation starter? And we make a t shirt.

So we put a conversation starter on a t shirt and we put it out there and we essentially say, hey, if you wear this t shirt, this means that you have empathy and have understanding for mental health. And it's going to allow people to see you and say, right, if I'm ever struggling, I can go and talk to that person about mental health.

It's like a permission slip. And, , so when I first thought of that, the next step was what can we call it? And, , It goes back to, , when Riley's older brother, so my, my stepson, , he was at the playground one day, , him and I, and he came off a slide and he hit the dirt pretty, pretty hard. And I was being a really bad stepfather at the time and I was scrolling on my phone, not really paying attention.

And I remember looking up and, and seeing him and thinking, do I have to go over and see if he's okay or is he going to be all right? He stood up, he brushed himself off, he looked over to me, he threw a shaker, I threw a shaka back, and he kept on playing. And I thought that was a really cool way that we communicated without necessarily using words.

And that's exactly what is the hardest thing about mental health, is opening that conversation, starting that conversation. So I thought, right, let's chuck a shaka out on all our t shirts. Let's use this as a conversation starter, as something that we can talk about, um, and start a conversation. , so that's what I did.

I remember I put my last 1500 into these t shirts. My partner at the time was absolutely furious with me, , because we were on holidays and we're in, , yeah, we're in Cairns. And, , I just said, hey, we've got no money at the moment because I just bought all these t shirts. She was, , not happy with me at all.

But, , I just had this feeling, I had a, had this idea that this could make a real big impact. And, , these t shirts took like four weeks to get in. I was super stressed. I had, you know, I had no idea if this was going to be a thing. And I remember launching it on Facebook and within probably eight hours all the t shirts were sold out.

,We had shares. You know, all across, Australia from this Facebook status, over 10, 000 shares on this Facebook status. , I had orders from, you know, all over New South Wales, all over Queensland, all over Victoria. , all over Australia. And I didn't even know how to send something. I didn't even know how to use Australia Post.

You know, I've sent a few postcards and letters and stuff before. I'm like, can I send a t shirt? What do I do there? So, that was a really wild 48 hours. I thought it was going to be something, I'm originally from Ballarat, I thought it was going to be something in Ballarat that we could all get behind. , and through the power of social media, I was all of a sudden sending t shirts to New South Wales, and to Queensland, and to South Australia, and all over Australia.

So when I saw that, when I saw how many people wanted to get behind it, I really started to understand, right, this is bigger than just me. This is bigger than just, , you know, just Ballarat, and just the people here that want to start this conversation. So I really 10 X it. I put everything I had into it.

, I still have the gyms at this time. , so I was doing sort of both and I was doing the shackle is a bit of a passion project, , and I was able to grow it into essentially a T shirt brand that just talked about mental health and I'm just trying to keep that message of, , you know, if, if you're struggling, put this T shirt on.

If you want to talk, put this T shirt on. , and if you want to have that That understanding and that conversation with your friends, then put this T shirt on too. So, , that's essentially where it started. , and you know, six, five years on, five years on, yeah, five years on, , when our national charity were able to continue doing all that, , continue to get these T shirts out there and audience and stuff as conversation starters, and, uh, that's now our full time gig. I, , don't have the gyms anymore. I sold all them last year. , I suppose I just had a bit of a shift in passion. It's been a massive journey, but it's something that's definitely changed my life and, , you know, changed her life, , and, , it's something I'm really, really passionate about.

Rosie Skene: It's amazing that you can, you know, use your time now doing something that you're so passionate about and, and obviously you love it. I see that when I saw you at the mental health conference, I actually, I clocked you from the shirt because I was across the room and I saw the Shaka walk past. I'm like, Oh, hello.

Sean Phillip: Yeah, yeah. We want it to be, um, you know, a really recognisable logo. , you know, we have logos like, you know, Nike and Apple and all this sort of stuff. And, you know, they're things that you see and you trust, you know, if you see an Apple product. Yeah. majority of the people don't trust it. , and that's exactly what I want with the Shaka.

I want everybody to see the Shaka and trust, right, this is somewhere, this is somebody that I can go up and talk to, I can go and be vulnerable to, and I can have a conversation with about mental health and not feel that, you know, That awkwardness, and I've been blessed to hear so many amazing stories of people, you know, sitting in a country New South Wales pub by themselves, wearing a Shaka t shirt, , you know, and somebody walking in, going straight over to them and saying, hey, let's have a beer together.

And people becoming friends and becoming mates just through the Shaka, just through the t shirt. , and that doesn't happen, you know, you don't, you don't see that happen in a pub. I can't walk into a pub here and go up to a random guy and start sitting down and talk about my vulnerabilities. He'd probably look at me a bit weird.

So, , I thought, well, if we. Put a bit of an icebreaker there, get someone wearing a Shaka t shirt, , then that's a big, a big neon sign that says, hey, come and talk to me if you need to. , I have empathy or I have understanding for mental health and if you want to chat, I'm here. If you don't want to chat, I'm still here.

So, , that's the, that's the idea about it. We've, we've heard some amazing stories that that's been happening in, in real life and that's, , that's all I could ask for.

Rosie Skene: That's beautiful. I had a 40th birthday party recently, and one of my very, very good friends from high school came in a shocker shirt, and I said, Oh, my God, I made him get a photo, but I don't know whose phone it was on. So I haven't found it yet. But, um, I'm like, I've got to send this to Sean.

Sean Phillip: Yeah, I love, I love saying we recently had a comment on Instagram that we're on a cruise. Somewhere and , there was, there was a family there that were wearing the Shaka t shirt and , although they didn't go and talk to them, they just, they saw it and they thought that's really cool because, you know, they've had their mental health issues and they can physically see, hey, that people, those people over there, they may not have had personal issues, but maybe they've experienced poor mental health or they may have experienced loss or they just have empathy and care for it.

So, Automatically, they have that some sort of connection with them and, , it's, it's really beautiful and, you know, I was at Melbourne Airport just a few weeks ago, , and my flight was actually cancelled. So, I was sitting there trying to book another flight. Actually, it was the night before the Mental Health Conference.

, my flight was cancelled the night before, so I was on my laptop, frantically trying to book another flight. And, , a woman kept walking past me and smiling, and then she walked the other way and kept smiling and looked at what's going on here. , and then she finally got up to me and said, are you from the Shaka?

I said, yeah, I am. And she said, come around here. And I went, I walked around the corner and here's her husband and her two kids, , all wearing Shaka. And it just, it just made me so happy, it almost brought a tear to my eye just to see firstly the kids wearing it, , you know, that's just so beautiful to me that those parents are saying to these kids, you know, this is a cool jumper, that's a cool logo, that's great, this is what it means, and this is what it's all about.

So I know that those kids are going to grow up in a household that they can openly talk about what they're experiencing, what they're going through, , you know, and that's just great. That's just beautiful. It just makes me so happy to know that there's another family like mine that we're able to talk about it.

, and you know, you never know what those kids are going to be able to grow up and make an impact on when it comes to mental health too. So, you know, in 10 years there might be a shackle project point too. , that those kids are growing up, that's exactly what I want, just more, more conversation, more people talking about it too.

So, uh, yeah, there's been some amazing moments.

Rosie Skene: That's so cool. And it keeps you going, right? Like seeing that.

Sean Phillip: Oh, gosh, yeah. Yeah. It's better than anything else just to know that you're actually having that impact.

Just to see people, I think it's really brave as well. I talk about this a lot with people. you know, talking about what's going on in your life can be really hard.

And talking about, even just being vulnerable can be really hard. So whenever I see somebody wearing a Shaka T shirt or a hoodie out in public, the first thing I think of is that person is so brave. Because not only are they saying, Hey, I have an understanding, come up and talk to me. But they're also possibly saying, Hey, I struggle with mental health.

And that's the hardest thing we can, we can start a conversation about. So, when I see that, I just want to give a massive hug and just say you are, you are the MVP. You are so brave for, for wearing this out, , for being in public and essentially, again, holding up a neon sign saying, I've struggled with mental health, or I do struggle with mental health, , or I may have lost someone through mental health.

And I just think it's, It's such a brave thing to do is to, you know, hold that sign up proudly, wherever you are. and, , you know, just allow people to come and talk to you. I think it's just, yeah, incredible. Absolutely incredible.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, I totally agree. Um, I see that you've had your Run For Our Mate Campaign. And you've got some amazing results. I wrote them down because I was so happy for you. 38, 271 kilometres. And you've managed to raise $206,992, um, which enables you to, I guess, get out there and do more mental health programs and get out into the schools and, and run more workshops there is, is that what you're going to do now?

Sean Phillip: Exactly. Yeah. And it's been absolutely unbelievable. Um, when I, uh, when I sat down and planned this campaign, I'm sitting in my lounge room with Feb going, right, I want to do this for the whole month. , and I set a goal of at least 50 runners. , and, you know, I thought I'll be able to get that. It's pretty easy. , I wanted to get 3, 249 kilometers completed for the entire month. , which, you know, what do we do? 38, 000.

Rosie Skene: 38, 271. Yeah. Smashed it.

Sean Phillip: And, um, and I launched it. And I remember before we even hit March, we had raised 100, 000. It was, it was unbelievable. It was just incredible. So we had 955 runners all together, , from all across the world.

We had Australia, , UK, New Zealand, a couple in the United States as well. , it's just, it was just unbelievable how many people picked this up. And I think the best thing about. Yeah, the social media, , post that we saw from people doing this challenge was them getting together with their friends and just going for a run or going for a walk.

, you know, it's great that we're able to get our core of the target and smash the fundraising target. That's great. But to be able to see people. Yeah, call me mate, say hey, let's get together and go for a run. We all know exercise is great for our mental health, but exercise with our friends is even better.

And yeah, that was, that was more powerful to see than, than the amount of money we raised or the amount of kilometres we ran, which is just people getting together. I've had multiple messages of people saying, hey, in Feb I was, I was really, you know, beating myself up, my fitness had gone down the gurgler, so I did this challenge and now I'm feeling great.

I'm back in the fitness. I'm feeling happy. I'm feeling better. , I'm able to go and do things again and, and run around with the kids and all these different things. So, although it was great for us and great for us, our ability to be able to do more with all this, 955 people went out there and, and, and worked their ass off for a month, , around 100 kilometres.

That was the personal goal. , it was tough. I only just got it. I had the day before it ended. I was in, , I think I was in Perth for two of the week, so I didn't run a whole lot. So three days in a row I had to run 10 kilometres, which almost killed me, but, , but I got there eventually. So it was really, really tough personal challenge for a lot of people, but that was a really beautiful thing to see out of it.

Um, and yes, and now we're able to, with those funds raised, we're able to do, , Countless, you know, free events for schools, which we've already signed up, , five schools. So we're up to, , New South Wales in a couple of weeks, South Australia next week for a small , and Central Coast as well next week to be able to get into these high schools and and do these free events for them and, , continue to ignore that conversation where we go to 40 clubs, a lot of 40 clubs, but it's tough to get these events because obviously, you know, it costs us to fly there to accommodate us and all that sort of stuff to, but now we can say, right, if we can work this out, we'll be there at no cost.

And we can go there and we can do these events. , and that's all thanks to these donations. You know, it's all thanks to 955 people that put on the runners and got out there with their friends. , and now we're going to be able to reach thousands of more Australians, especially young Australians, , and continue that conversation on too.

So it's been, , it's been unbelievable. I don't think, I definitely didn't expect. So many people can get behind it, but it just goes to show how many people are passionate about this conversation.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. Yeah. The tides are changing, right? Like it's

Sean Phillip: Oh, yeah.

Rosie Skene: You can feel it.

Sean Phillip: You can. You can. You definitely can feel it.

.

And I think there's just a few areas where we have to keep on tinkering with and, , and, , keep that conversation louder than possibly can. But the tide is changing. I think it probably has been for the last couple of years, even post COVID. , but, uh, yeah, there's still those, those, those few conversations we need to keep having and keep reigniting.

I think it's a really good thing we can do. , mental health is every day, so we probably shouldn't be talking about it every day. That's why you see so many posts on our Instagram. , I try and post three times a day just to keep on, , reigniting that and keep people thinking about it.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, and that's another thing I really love about what you do is how simple your posts are. Yeah. Yeah. 'You fucking matter'. How simple is that? Yeah. And it's so true.

Sean Phillip: Yeah. And I try and keep it really authentic. , you know, a lot of people always ask me, you know, who runs the social media. I do every single post. , and. It's very, very raw, very, very authentic. If you see, I always say this, if you see a post that says, be fucking kind, it usually means that I've had a run in with someone that wasn't very kind to me, and I just say, oh my god, that sucked, right, let's put this message out there.

,You know, sometimes if I'm having a really rough day, you know, there might be a post that says, , you know, keep going and keep pushing through, you know, it's not always related to what's happening in that day, but it's just the things that I'm feeling and things that I'm, I'm going through myself and, , you know, I've had many people say, hey, I'll, I'll do your social media for you.

I'll run all your media. There's just no way, because it has to be raw, it has to be authentic. There's been people that have approached us and said, Hey, why do you have to swear when it comes to mental health? I'm like, well, that's real. It is real. That's life. If I just tiptoe around this message, then we tiptoe around the result.

And the result is to make an impact. So it has to be raw. It had to be authentic. , you know, in my presentations, not in schools, obviously, but if I'm talking to a footy club, I'll swear, I'll, I'll get really, you know, passionate and raw and authentic about it, , because that's me and that's, that's, that's the level of passion I have for this, if, if I was to get up there and talk really nice and polite and, and all those different things, I think people would see, see straight through it and, , you know, not be able to attach themselves, because let's be honest, We swear, we are connected to swear words, , so are most kids, so if, if we can connect on every single level of emotion, , and something that I learned throughout my, , you know, years of owning, owning gyms is that emotion sells.

And although we're not trying to sell anything through our, our social media posts, , we're trying to get attention and emotion gets attention, emotion sells. So if people can see something that makes them laugh, they're going to be attached to it. If they can see something that makes them feel good, they're going to get attached to it, if they see something that they want to share like you fucking matter, they're going to get attached to it. So, , I think it's a really powerful thing to be that. Have that raw authenticity about, , what you do that gets that message across. You make something a bit more impactful as well. So, , yeah, no apologies for the, for the swearing.

Rosie Skene: My mum pulled me up once for swearing. She sent me a message like, what's this about? Why are you swearing on social media? I'm like, cause that's how I talk.

Sean Phillip: You're right. You've got to be raw, authentic. It's, it's just, , you know, if, if you don't do that, people sink straight through it.

Rosie Skene: Yeah.

Sean Phillip: I think that's the best thing about, uh, you know, being, being able to do my own social media is I've got, A few friends that have mental health charities as well, and they've got, you know, high up boards of people in suits sitting there and they, they put red flags and everything and all that sort of stuff.

And, , you know, they can't post things like that. They have to post things that are, , very much, you know, surrounded by flowers and, and, , you know, something that is ethical in people's eyes. And that's great to be ethical. That's amazing. But, , people connect overall. It will connect to things that are real and authentic to say, , I think that somewhere I'm very, very blessed to be in that position where I can do it all myself.

And, , I can, , I can have those openness that openness in that conversation. from my heart. , and it's also really helpful to me too. You know, if I'm going through a rough stage and I put up a post that says keep on going and I see 2, 000 people like it, I think those 2, 000 people are telling me to keep going.

You know, those 2, 000 people are saying, yep, Sean, keep going. Yeah, keep doing what you're doing and everyone that shares the post and does this and does that. I always say to our ambassadors, you know, when you share a post, you're opening up a door for people. So if you share a post to maybe 50 people see it on your story, 50 people now see that, Hey, if I'm ever in trouble, if I'm ever in strife, if I'm ever going through something.

This person is my first point of call and that can make a real big impact on people. The amount of messages that I've got from people to say, Hey, I shared a post about mental health and my mate messaged me and said, Hey, I love that message. I've been struggling. And then I opened up a conversation.

That's just, yeah, that's exactly what we want. To be able to share that and people will be able to see it and say, right, if I'm ever in strife, this is the person I can speak to. , and it just opened up that door for that conversation.

Rosie Skene: It's how we change the world.

Sean Phillip: Absolutely. One, one, one post at a time.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, one post, one conversation, one moment. Absolutely. Yeah, that's so beautiful. , to wrap up, do you have any advice for anyone having a tough time today?

Sean Phillip: Yeah, be kind to yourself. , this is as you mentioned before, this is everybody's first go at life. , you know, nobody ever, ever succeeded at life in quotation. , you know, this is our first time. So be kind to yourself. , that's, that's I think we don't do that enough. We They're constantly criticising themselves, and I think the majority of that has got to do with comparison and seeing what everybody else is doing, but, , you know, if you can be kind to yourself and love yourself most, , I think that's a really big step towards making sure that the next, you know, Two weeks or six months in your life are going to be a little bit easier, , and just forgiving yourself, you know, forgiving yourself for, for stuffing it up sometimes or not giving it a hundred percent sometimes, nobody has a hundred percent, you know, we look on social media at these influences, , and they're constantly promoting that they've got the most amazing life and they're waking up at 4am and having their ice baths and their acai bowls and their ice wood stuff and their life's great but , I can guarantee that they're struggling.

I can guarantee not going to share that. , so stop comparing yourself, you know, comparisons are a thief of all joy. be kind to yourself even if you're having a bad day. , and it's okay to, uh, to seek a support if you need to.

Rosie Skene: I agree. Be kind to yourself always.

Sean Phillip: Yeah.

Rosie Skene: Thanks so much for coming on, Sean.It's been an amazing conversation. thank you for everything you're doing with the Shaka project and for sharing your story so openly, because I know it's helping so many people and, and you know, to, you know, you can say it, , when people wear your shirts. , I will share all of your details in our show notes for anyone that wants to check out the Shaka project or buy a shirt or gift a shirt to one of their friends.

thanks again for joining me. It's been just so wonderful.

Sean Phillip: Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

OUTRO

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Your support means the world. My name is Rosie Skeen, join me again next week for another empowering and positive episode of Triumph Beyond Trauma. Until then, be kind to your mind and trust in the magic of your consistent and positive efforts. Triumph Beyond your trauma is closer than you think. Have the best week.