Rosie Skene:

Hello, and welcome to episode 19 of Triumph Beyond Trauma

I just have a couple of
things that I wanted to mention before we get stuck into today's episode. Uh,
I'm not sure that I've mentioned it before, but the transcriptions for each and
every episode are available on my website. So if you're hearing impaired or you
have had enough of the sound my voice head on over to tacticalyogaaustralia.com/podcast, scroll

to the bottom of each episode's page.

And there you'll find the transcript. If you would like to look
at that.

The second thing is, is that my program, the First Responder
Mental Wellness Method is now available 24 7. So there's no more waiting for
launch weeks for the program to be available to you. The reason for this is
that everyone has their own timeframes and their own timelines.

And when it is suitable for me to have a launch week, it may
not be the best time for you or someone that you know, to take the leap and
join in. So it's there available for whenever you would like the price is 247
Australia dollars. .

If you'd like to learn more about the program, you can head
over to the website, tacticalyogaaustralia.com or listened to episode four,
which is completely dedicated to the program.

This one is the penultimate episode for season two, and I am
thrilled with how the podcast is resonating with so many people. I've been
blessed to be receiving messages and emails from people who are feeling seen,
supported, and are able to get a better understanding of what their loved ones
might be going through on their journey with mental ill health. I have not done
this alone. And I really thank my guests. For sharing their stories. If you
would like to share your story. You can find me on social media at tactical
yoga Australia, or email me.

[email protected]. , and tell me a little bit

about yourself and your story.

Today I have Leigh Anderson joining me and we discuss
everything mindset. Leigh has just released his first book, the paramedic
mindset. And I can tell you, and I probably say it way too many times during
our conversation, that it is a book that I had wished I read at the beginning.
of my career. In saying that though the book is amazing for whatever stage
you're at and it's not limited to just first responders or paramedics. I loved
it so much. And I encourage you all to take a read.

Formally, Leigh
Anderson is an accomplished paramedic with 15 years of operational experience
and first hand extensive knowledge of how to perform and thrive in high stress.
Unpredictable situations. Leigh is the author of the paramedic mindset.

Outside of an ambulance. Leigh has a keen desire to improve the
human experience of stress to set people up to flourish. He has a bachelor of
paramedic science and a graduate certificate of emergency health has lectured
and tutored at university level and been a peer reviewer of scientific journal
articles. I can also confirm that he's a really great guy and I hope you enjoy
this conversation.

Just one more thing before we do get started in this
conversation. I just wanted to mention a content warning. We do discuss, death
a couple of times during this episode. Nothing in great detail. But if that is
something that you need to be mindful of, just please be aware that that
content is going to be in this episode.

INTRO

Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores
journeys of resilience and hope. I'm Rosie Skene a yoga and breathwork teacher
and founder of Tactical Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mum to
three beautiful kids and a medically retired NSW police officer with PTSD, I
understand the challenges of navigating mental health in the first responder
and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've
confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness
and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together, we'll
uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter ,more
fulfilling life whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or
just a friendly reminder that you're not alone, Triumph Beyond Trauma has got
your back.

You matter, and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life
starts right here.

Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, Leigh thank you so much for
coming today.

Leigh Anderson:

Thank
you so much for having me.

Rosie Skene:

Oh, you're welcome.

I always get started with, how people come to join the service
that they've been in. I'd love if you could share a bit about yourself and how
you came to be a paramedic in Queensland.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah,
yeah, um, my story really. It's, it wasn't something I always dreamed of doing
or wanted to do as a child. , My journey into paramedicine came through
suffering, like going through hardship. , and basically, you know, as a young
teenager, my dream was to be a rugby league superstar. I thought I was going to
be the next Wally Lewis.

, I didn't care much about playing for Australia. I just wanted
to play for Queensland.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Leigh Anderson:

And,
um, I had an older brother who, uh, was really good and, , someone I looked up
to and he ended up signing a contract with Melbourne Storm at 15. And, , I was
a couple of years younger than him and I sort of wanted to follow in your big
brother's footsteps as well.

And, uh, around 15 is when I had my first, , knee, major knee
injury. I dislocated my kneecap and, , you know, tore some tendons and then, ,
had surgery at 15. , that went well. And then about a year later, just probably
six months after I returned to footy, I did my other knee and then, , this one,
it was the same injury, , had the same surgeon.

And then I ended up getting an, an infection in hospital. , I
went home and ended up having septic shock and I was very sick. , and I
couldn't bend my leg more than 30 degrees. Like it was locked. Together and I
was limping around and , it came to the stage where I was worried if I was ever
going to walk normally again, let alone run.

Um, and then, you know, it put life into perspective quite
quickly that, you know, I might be like disabled for the rest of my life. ,
with this leg injury. , anyway, when I had the septic shock, I ended up calling
the ambulance and the ambulance came and they were amazing. I just like looked
at them as heroes at the time.

, I was probably 17 and just the way they treated me and looked
after me and talking to me in the ambulance. And I was just amazed by the
whole. Being in the back of the ambulance and driving lights and sirens and,
um, like, wow, this is really cool. And I never really thought much of it, ,
until I realized that my sporting career was over and I had to do something
else.

And, , I was lucky enough. I came across when I finished high
school. I came across that, uh, I read it somewhere that, , universities now do
the Bachelor of Paramedic Science. So before that. It was only the diploma. It
used to be like all, you know, apprenticeship based, you learn on the job, but
it transitioned into the tertiary education.

And when I saw that, I'm like, wow, , it just, , it was like a
calling. And I remembered those people that came in and look after me and I
just enrolled and then I just loved it from the moment I enrolled and being on
the campus and my friends and doing scenarios and, and my first placement. It
was amazing.

And, , Yeah. So I like to share that actually, because it was
like, at the time I thought my life was over and I was only 17. Yeah. Yeah.
And, but then I realized now I look back that like that hardship, that
suffering or supposed difficulty, , thinking that, you know, I would never walk
normally again. Um, and then being really sick and with septic shock, I
thought, , that was probably my greatest gift now because I never would have
became a paramedic without it.

, And it gave me perspective on life and what's really
important. So I think, , like we always look at suffering as a really bad thing
and it's very difficult at the time when you're amongst, in the storm. But if
you can hang in there and try and see, reframe it and see t

hat like, what, what
is this trying to teach me?

What am I learning from this? And it can actually be one of
your greatest things. Cause I never would have written this book. I never would
be talking to you if that didn't happen. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. I
agree. Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately, suffering can be painful in the moment, but
if you, if you do have a mindset where you can take something from it, learn
from it or achieve something out of it, like it can be pretty amazing and, you
know, like, yeah, I wouldn't be talking to you if I didn't go through what I've
been through either.

So, um, yeah, it can be a great gift.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah,
I think it is a gift and it, it's, it's the best way we can learn. And grow.
Um, you don't grow without challenge.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Yeah. Absolutely.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

So from,
, university, where did you get to after that? Where was your first station?

Leigh Anderson:

Uh, I
got shipped up to Rockhampton, , as a third year uni student.

, I was 20 or 21 or turning 21, maybe I was pretty young when I
look back now, I didn't think I was young at the time. I thought I was, you
know, ego driven, young male. I thought I knew everything. Um, but then you
quickly learn, you know, nothing. . So I started out there and, , I was really
fortunate.

Like, you know, it was tough leaving home and, you know, one
new town by yourself. Um, I had some really good mentors. Um, and I think a lot
of that's missing at the moment where you might have like a 20 year old with a
22 year old. Yeah, , where I was very fortunate. I had some really experienced
paramedics alongside me that taught me and, , that, you know, they gave some
tough love, but I think that's what I needed.

And having that ability, like, I was very fortunate to go there
because the mentorship I got up there was brilliant. I was guided by some
really experienced people that I still talk to. Ja, they're just like, they're
still my mentors, 15 years later. they're still people I look up to. I think
they're far better paramedics than I'll ever be.

Um, and you know, there's some people I still as aspire to, to
be like.

Rosie Skene:

You
mentioned that you've written a book. Um, yeah, yeah. , it's, and I, I think
it's amazing. , it's called Paramedic Mindset. , and something before we get
started in talking about that, is it just for paramedics?

Leigh Anderson:

Uh,
no, no, the title would say otherwise, but, um, it's basically using the
paramedic as the example.

Um, so we paramedics deal with like high stress environment
pretty much daily, , deal with life and death. So it's a perfect example to
share the science around performing under pressure and how to deal with acute
stress and, , how to maintain poise. I like to call it. And, , so it's
basically we all have the same biology, the same physiology.

We're all humans. We all respond to stress the exactly the same
same chemicals that are released in our body from our brain. , so it's just
using the skills and the lessons I've learned as a paramedic to control those
chemical releases and and those that fight or flight response. , just because
it's so easy to share some stories of times when I've been really stressed.

, a lot of the research in the book actually comes from, uh,
the military. , at the time I was doing this book because. Paramedics is still
fairly new in the research world, particularly in Australia, because, you know,
we just became tertiary. There's only people now doing PhDs and researching.
The stuff coming out now is brilliant, , but, you know, previously, the body of
research in the ambulance world is actually pretty limited, , so I had to rely
heavily on, like, military research, , surgeons, and sports, so there's a lot
of sports research around, , how to perform under pressure, obviously, um, so I
use a lot of that research, but then I use the stories of a paramedic to make
it applicable in real life, because I wanted the book to be practical, so I
didn't want to just dump you with research and it's like, well, how does this
actually apply to my daily life?

How can I use this? , so I tried to show examples of times
where I've used it in my day to day life. And the prologue, the first story I
tell is a personal story. It's got nothing to do with ambulance. And I show at
the end of that story, I show that if it wasn't for the skills I've learned as
a paramedic, then in that personal moment, I would have freaked out.

I would have completely lost control and probably made some bad
decisions. So, um, yeah. That was part of the moment when I realised that this
stuff applies to anyone. I used it the other day. I had to do a public speech
in front of 250 people. , I've done public speaking before, but not the crowd
was quite intimidating.

I was like, Um, CEOs and directors of companies, and it was
like, oh, wow, I better perform here. And I was getting nervous and stuff. And
I use some of the things that I learned from being a paramedic and the stuff in
the book to apply to public speaking because it was a stressful night. Yeah.
Um, so if the, I always say if the outcome matters to you, , if time is short,
which is time is always short and, , you're lacking resources, then you're
going to be very stressed, no matter what.

What the situation is, no matter what you're doing, you're
going to feel stressed.

Rosie Skene:

Reading
it as a former police officer, it's a book I wish I would have read, you know,
20 years ago beforehand. And I think it's probably something that, you know, ,
paramedics could read in uni before they get out.

In the vehicles, cops,
like anyone, but like you said, it's applicable to everyone and anyone. We're
all human. We all have the same physiological responses to stress. And like you
said, I really enjoyed, , how you did put in those personal stories and how
you've applied it yourself because it really helps with the learning.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.
The first draft was very, like, it was like a university study. Yeah. You
wouldn't have liked it. You wouldn't have read it.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
It's

Leigh Anderson:

like,
you would have felt like they had to mark it.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Just get my red pen out.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Cause there was very like, cause as a paramedic, you're very weary
of giving bad advice.

. Like giving the wrong advice can be deadly, especially in the
ambulance, like the medical world. Um, you want to make sure that when you're
giving someone advice that it's correct and it's not going to be harm. So, you
know, first do no harm. So it was very important to me. But I got the science
right and I wasn't giving bad advice.

, so that's why I wanted to make sure that I got the science
really correct. And like a lot of research went into it to do that. And then at
the last minute, that's when I added stories. To align with the science.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Yeah. I remember, you know, going to jobs as a cop and then having, uh,
paramedics turn up on scene.

And I think it was the very first time that it happened that
they came on scene and I watched them get out of their vehicle. And I've never
seen people be so calm in such a crazy, like, I think it was a car accident or
something like that. You know, there's a lot going on. There's lights and
sirens and people and emotions and injuries.

Um, and the way that they get out of the vehicle is so calm and
it just, well, they were, um, and it just bought this beautiful sense of calm
over the whole situation. And, you know, I really noticed that over my career
that. Ambos is they just had this presence about them that would just calm me
down, which was great because I was always up here as a cop.

And I wish, you know, I knew what I know now, but something
that you talk about is poise. And it's something that they have as paramedics
and, you know, not all of them, but, , I think it's so important and reading
that in your book, , and thinking back to my days, , on the street, I was like,
Oh yeah, that's exactly what they have.

Is that something that's just within a person or is that
something like a skill that can be taught or learned?

Leigh Anderson:

yeah, it's definitely a skill that can be taught and learn. Um, there is some
people that have more innate, you know, personalities to being able to handle
stress, but that doesn't mean, , it can't be taught or learn.

everything in the book
is for anyone that wants to learn. If you have, you know, if you have that open
mind and the growth mindset, then you can develop poise for sure. Um, I
describe poise as someone that has self assurance and composure under pressure.
Um, but despite everything going around them, they're able to make really good
decision making and , take action under pressure so they don't freeze.

Um, and when they do take action, it's based on some really
good intel and information because they're able to keep that prefrontal cortex,
a part of the brain that you process information, able to keep that empty for
the stuff that really matters and not filling it with fear and doubt and. Um,
worry, but yeah, it's very true that parent, like, you know, a lot of those
paramedics getting out of the car, you feel like you're, you are a bit of a
duck on a pond, like,

like it's, you want to look like you're in control for sure and
not, it doesn't, but that's okay too. Um, cause I'll talk about like, stress is
not a bad thing. It's a good thing. It only becomes bad if it gets to a certain
point and you become overwhelmed. Um, and then you have like a catastrophic
breakdown, um, of performance because , you're too stressed, you're
overstressed, but stress in itself isn't a bad thing.

Without stress, you wouldn't survive. You would all be dead ,
like quite literally. Um, I tell, I, I share a story in the book about a
patient I had that had Addison's disease or adrenal crisis, which is, um,
someone that has a condition where their adrenals don't produce enough
cortisol. And adrenaline, noradrenaline, , and the symptoms of that condition
is severe fatigue, lethargy, weakness, abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea.

So this is a patient that has no adrenaline, no stress in their
body, and that's how they feel. They're the symptoms they have. So it's a
really good example to show that stress is a good thing. So if we need stress
and stress is a good thing, then, , how do we use it to our advantage? How do
we take.

Advantage of the response and those chemicals in our body to
help and improve our performance. Um, and that's what poise is about. It's not
about being stress free. I didn't want to use the word calm because I don't
think calm doesn't align well with performance because the books about how to
perform.

And increasing your performance in goal directed stress. So we
all have a goal, um, something you want to achieve and that's generally because
the outcome matters to you. So you're going to feel pressured, like you feel
like you need to achieve this goal. Um, so that's what poise is for me is the
goal directed stress and being able to use the stress to your advantage and not
letting it overtake you.

Um, when it overtakes you, that's when it becomes a problem and

your performance drops.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
You also talk about how your knowledge, , is related to that as well. So, you
know, having a really good knowledge base , of your job role, , and how that
impacts your poise as well, because if you, , don't have the tools that you
need, whether it be education or your kit bag or something like that, , that
level of stress can go from, , Having a good outcome to not so much having a
good outcome, and it can be overwhelming.

I thought that was a

really good point that you've made across the book as well is,

Leigh Anderson:

yeah,
I think mindset's really important. I wrote a book about it,

but it's not everything. And I think people think that, I think
I write in the book, it's like, yeah, great. You can meditate for half an hour.
And have the most wonderful mindset. But if you've got no idea what you're
doing, you have no knowledge, no information on that, then your brilliant
mindset is not going to help you.

It's like, Oh, wow, look at those dead people in that car
accident. That's amazing. It's so beautiful. So, um, maybe you should do
something about it. Um, So so to have a good mindset and perform under
pressure, you first need to have mastery of skills and I'll talk about having
unconscious competence. So the 4 levels of learning and that's basically when
you're feeling the pressure and your heart rates up and the adrenaline is
pumping and you're sweating and you're going red faced and you're getting tunnel
vision.

That's okay to a level and you can still perform in that
situation if you've mastered your skills. And if you've got, if you've made
your skills near unconscious, so if you can pretty much do it without any
thought and that's a mastery of your skills. , and those micro skills are the
first things we lose when we become stressed, we, , are unable to do those fine
motor skills.

Um, you know, like for in a medical world, it would be
inserting needles into someone, , like a surgeon, you look at a surgeon. It's
like they're very calm. They're very controlled because they need to lower
their arousal because they need to focus on micro skills. But if those, if you
are aroused, you need to be able to use those skills.

Like I said, with pretty much unconscious thought, you can do
them without. Thinking because then that frees up the executive functioning or
the prefrontal cortex for other things for other information. , And ambulance
is quite unique too, because you've got to be able to at moments, you've got to
be able to have clear direct focus on one thing.

But then you've got to be able to pull yourself back and then
look at the wider thing. It's like you, you perform your skill, okay, you're
putting a needle in someone, but yeah, you've got to be focused on putting that
needle in, but then you've got to be, have the mindfulness to pull away and go,
okay, that's done now, what's, what's happening in the environment around me?

What information do I need to take in now? And that's where the
mindset stuff comes in. So you're able to break that tunnel vision and you're
able to focus on a single task and then you're able to pull back from it. The
people that. Become overwhelmed, unable to pull back and they get stuck on that
task.

Um, yeah, back to sorry, uh, I went on a diversion there for a
bit, but to answer your question. To answer your question. Um, yeah, it's you
can have the greatest mindset in the world, but if you don't have the knowledge
and information and you don't do the training and you don't do the hard work
associated with it, then mindset isn't going to help.

the mindsets about
clearing your mind so you can access the information you have stored in your
brain. If you've got no information stored in your brain, there's going to be
nothing processing.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
that's it.

, something in your book, uh, it's a whole chapter is
languishing and flourishing. And languishing is not a word that I'd heard of. I
have heard of it before, but I've not really done any sort of learning on it.

And I know after reading it, I was like, Oh yeah, I've been
there. Um, when you just, you know, you feel meh,

Leigh Anderson:

yeah,

Rosie Skene:

and you
know, nothing's really getting you going. And, um, and you just, it's a
continuum, the languishing, flourishing continuum. And I really enjoyed that
chapter actually, and learning about it. And how panic poise and pressure, um,
and how you respond to it, depending on where you are.

Did you want to talk a little bit about , languishing and
flourishing?

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.
Yeah. It was really eye opening. And I was, the first thing that blew me away
was the research was in like 2005 and I was like, how have I not heard about
it? Yeah. Um, so Corey Keyes is a Canadian psychologist and he, uh, did a
research paper and published called, , The mental health continuum from
flourishing to, , from languishing to flourishing in life.

And basically, , the first thing to introduce it is that there
was a difference between mental health and mental illness. And in the Western
society, we focus on mental illness. We have what's called a deficit based
approach. So when someone becomes sick or ill, we then, we then treat them. And
then the, , the languishing person is someone that doesn't have a mental
illness.

So they're not diagnosed with depression, anxiety, PTSD,
schizophrenia, anything like that, but they still have good mental health, but
they're not functioning well in life. They lack motivation. Like you said, you
just feel meh. You have no drive to get up and do anything, but you can still
function. You're still fine.

You're not depressed. You're just not performing at your best.
You're going about your day to day with no satisfaction. You lack motivation.

Rosie Skene:

Just doing that 51%, isn't it? Like just over the line. Yeah.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.
It's like, you're not, you're not, you're doing, you know, it's like, I think I
write in there about your uni assignment.

So you're aiming for 51 percent and that's good enough. And if
you get that, you know, who cares? But there is, we focus, mental health is a
positive thing. So having mental health is actually defined as a positive
functioning in life. Where mental illness is where we diagnose people and label
them with poor mental health, uh, poor health.

, and distinguishing the difference between mental illness and
mental health was really important, I think, because we focus way too much on
mental illness. And the importance of focusing on mental health is that this
people that are languishing, there's about around 20 percent of the US
population in this study showed that 20 percent were languishing in life and of
those 20 percent 80 percent will become depressed.

So they will fall into a mental illness. So that group is
someone that we really need to capture and improve because they're on their
way. They're on their journey to poor health. And, um, no one's really talking
about that group. And if you want to flourish in life and perform at your best
and, and get out of bed and have drive, motivation, purpose, um, then we need
to start getting this group from languishing to flourishing.

And I try and take an approach where it's like a strength based
approach instead of deficit. It's like giving you the tools. To go from
languishing to flourishing. , and it is continuum. So you will go in between
both. , and there is a middle. So like 60 percent of us are what's called
moderately mentally like moderately flourishing.

So we're not flourishing. There's only about 20 percent
flourishing 20 percent on average, 20 percent languishing and about 60 percent
in the middle that are just moderately. Sitting there that and and we go in
between both depending on the day, but the idea is to try and get up to that
flourishing level, and there was a great paper about, , they did a research
about flourishes on a Tuesday and, , they made these people do something.

Like whether it was exercise, yoga, meditation, , help others,
volunteer, they had to do some activity and then they got them in on a Tuesday
and they were a group of, there was a group of languishing people and a group
of flourishing people and they overwhelmingly found in the study that the thing
that improves You're flourishing in life is helping others.

It wasn't meditation, wasn't exercise, wasn't anything like
that, but it was actually serving others and having, helping others and doing
things for other people that improved your flourishing in life the most. And I
think that was a really strong message. It's like, we focus so much on, like,
you got to get out there and exercise and then when people don't, they feel so
down and they feel like they're a failure because they don't exercise like the
person on Instagram.

But it's actually, if you just get out there and you have a
purpose and. And you help someone help your neighbour and that will actually
increase your flourishing the most.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Yeah. I agree with that. I, yeah, I've had some times, um, you know, when I was
in my darkest days of, um, my PTSD and depression, one of the things that I
would do is, um, and I don't know why I started doing it, but I was at the
grocery store one day.

And this woman was there with her very young baby, and if
anyone that's had a baby and has gone to the grocery store, the time that
they're going to cry is when you're at the checkout. , and if you shop at Aldi
that's anxiety inducing enough. Um, but I said to her, you know, can I help you
load your groceries, , onto the conveyor belt?

And I've never seen someone smile so much because this poor
baby is obviously hungry. Um, it's like, yeah, that would be great. And you
know, it helped him back in and, and just that one little act of kindness or
helping someone else just gave me a boost for, I reckon, probably two days
afterwards.

Leigh Anderson:

I'd say you've still got it now.

Rosie Skene:

And it,
and it has, it's been something that I've continued to do because it makes me
feel so good to do it. Like, so, you know, it's not completely selfless because
I get something out of it too.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.
I think so. So that research to flourish is a big part of it. Almost a third of
it is about improving your social well being.

Yeah. So being able to like, feel a part of your community,
feel like you're valued in your community, feel like you can, , help other,
like other, you feel needed within your social network. , and I think that's a
huge part that we're lacking at the moment is. You know, like people, , we
don't go down and watch like master's sport.

You don't go watch a 50 year olds run around on a football
field because it's entertaining and it's great sport. Yeah. No one goes to
watch, but they still play and they do it because of the social connection. And
it's like, if, if they're someone's husband or wife gets cancer, it's like that
whole club and that whole community gets behind them.

They help raise funds. They support them. They go around to
their house, do their cleaning, cook dinner for them. , and I think that's what
we're lacking. We're lacking that social community connection. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

There's,
I'm sure there's a lot of reasons for it, but social media is not real social
media.

It doesn't encourage people to get out. Well, it is as a
paramedic,

Leigh Anderson:
you'll see it. Like a lot of the patients you go to, it's loneliness. Yeah. Um,
you walk in and they're living alone. They're, they've got no one to call to
come help them. They can't ring someone to pick them up from hospital once they
leave.

, and you see it every day when you're working in ambulances,
just this people are alone. And it, it, that it basically they're, everyone's
in this languishing state and then they fall into depression because they, they
can't get out of it.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. So
do you have some tools, tips or tricks that, , can help people if they do find
themselves in that languishing state?

Leigh Anderson:

, the
first one is pretty simple and you'd be like, Oh, is that it? Um, it's
basically, uh, like your purpose, your mission. What's, what's your goal is sit
down and write out because, and it's okay. If you don't know, just pick
something and start there. It'll change and develop over time. Um, And I say
that if, because life's really hard, right, the reality of life is that we're
all going to suffer.

It's probably the most common thing we have with all humans is
that we're all suffering. Yeah. Um, most of us just do it in silence. Um, but
you need a worthy enough goal to deal with that suffering to make that
suffering worth it. So it's, you're happy to carry that burden and walk up the
hill with that suffering because your purpose, right?

It is worth it. The outcome is worth it. , And so I think if
you're really struggling, then maybe you just check what your goal is, like,
what are you trying to aim at? What are you achieving? Is it for selfish
reasons? Because that you'll come to a point where that won't be a good enough
goal and you won't want to go through the mud.

Yeah. Um, so that's the easiest and, , Easiest one. And most
people say, well, I don't know what my purpose is. It's like, well, neither do
I, but just start. I didn't know either. , and then I started writing this book
and then I started to develop one and, , The more you realise the more you
start aiming at something, the more you focus on something, the more
opportunities will come, the more doors will open, and then you'll start to
learn about yourself, and then that purpose will change, or it might just
become even stronger.

Yeah. Yeah, so that's probably the number one tip, and that's
got nothing to do really with, uh, because when things get tough, right, and
you think they're really hard, like in the ambulance, you know, like you'll
have a patient, And, I can tell you this, there's a patient I, , I was on call,
woke up at two in the morning, walk outside, it's like raining sideways, it's
like 40 knot winds and it's terrible, I'm walking to sleep out of my eye, it's
cold, and then I get this patient, it's on the side of a cliff, and then I turn
up and it's like 10 drunk people there, there's not one single sober person,
I'm working by myself, and you could just be like, what the hell am I doing
here, this sucks, I don't want to be here, Or it could be like, well, my
purpose to be here is to help this person, help this patient who's injured.

And then that's enough for me to deal with that moment, because
then it's not about me, it's about them. , and it's also a worthy enough goal
to deal with waking up at two in the morning, dealing with the rain, dealing
with drunks.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.
So you're more than happy to do it, right?

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
that's it.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.
I would never get up at two in the morning in the rain to like You know, go
take the dog outside.

No, we can wait. You can wait. . That goal is not worthy
enough.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Reading that story actually in the book, I was just like, oh. It took me back
to the days of dealing with drunk people. And I can tell you I do not miss that
at all. Oh, I don't
miss it at all.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sure I've been that person at times too.

Rosie Skene:

And
there's so much more animated too when they're drunk and everything just goes
like from zero to a hundred so quickly. And I can only imagine for you, like
trying to treat someone on the side of a cliff with 10, 10 drunk people around,
like managing that whole, yeah, they

Leigh Anderson:

all
want to help. And it's like, no, you, you won't be helping me,

Rosie Skene:

please
go away.

Um, something else I really enjoyed actually, it was the,
honesty and communication. And you shared a story of, , student or someone who
had recently, , started with you and you had asked them if they knew how to
operate the bed. , and they said that they did and that they did not.

Leigh Anderson:

They
did not know.

They did

Rosie Skene:

not. And
that turned into a bit of a problem. Um, so obviously it's quite important.
Yeah. And you've mentioned it in the book, but it's something that people
aren't honest.

Leigh Anderson:

Um, no, cause I think
like at that time it was like a fear of failure. Yeah. It's like, I don't want
to look bad in someone, but you rather deal with the pain now in the short term
than the long term.

So you're better off only up to it now and taking
accountability. , Because most of us live, cause we're worried about the
future. We're worried about the unknown. But. The unknown might be good. It's
like, yeah, you might get a slap on the wrist or it's like, okay, no worries.
Like, I'll go do it. We'll come up with another plan.

, but yeah, and it comes with being a paramedic too. It's like
when you have to talk to family members and you as a police officer as well
would have had to have done it. And, , like you got to be honest, there's no,
you got to like, and it's the only way to do it. And if you do tell a white lie
or you don't tell the full truth.

Then the outcome's always going to be worse , the reason we
usually lies because we're worried trying to protect ourselves. It's a defense
mechanism, right? It's we don't want to be embarrassed or we're fear that
something's going to be taken from us or we're going to look bad in front of
our peers.

But, , but then again, it's like, it's all about us. So we've
got to put it about the other person, , and the situation what's best for that
moment. Um, and I, I think I'll talk about, uh, normalisation of deviance in
there as well. And it's about having courage, so you got to have the courage
and courage is like overcoming fear and it's taking on fear.

It's not about not having fear, and I think when people lie,
it's they they're letting the fear rule them of their own imagination. So it's
like they're trying to predict the future. And if I lie here, my future is
going to be better, but it won't be. And and then you lied to yourself as well,
which is never a good thing.

Yeah, so I think. Courage is needed, and , I talk about
courageous self leadership and that's what that is, and it's about having that
moral courage to do what is right, despite the potential consequences against
you.

Rosie Skene:

. So, so
powerful. I, yeah. Every chapter in the book. I loved like, and I was, you
know, thinking about talking to you today and, , I'm like, you know, what do we
want to talk about?

And I was like, going back through the chapters, I'm like, Oh,
I could talk about that. Like I could talk to you for hours, but it's so good.
And, um, like I said, you know, it's something that I really wish that I'd
read, you know, 20 years ago. Um, and so it's

Leigh Anderson:

pretty much something when I first started writing it, I was looking at like,
you know, this will be really good for student paramedics.

And it was like, Something I would have wanted when I was a
student. So this book is a lot of things of, like, what would have I wanted to
know when I was a student? Because this stuff, we, we learn it on, through
experience. We, um, like some of this stuff that there's research about, I
didn't know there was research about it, I just naturally did it.

Like sighing, you know, like breathing. Yeah. We all sigh, and
they reckon we sigh every five minutes. It's when we look in front of screens
and stuff that we actually hold our breath and stops on. So that's really bad.
, but we do these things naturally. , like my mentors would take a pause. They
didn't know it was called a cognitive pause and it has all these benefits
through neuroscience research and, and that they just learnt it on the job.

And they did it one day and they thought, Oh, wow, that was
beneficial. So it's definitely something I've tried to write for my younger
version. Stuff I wish I knew and didn't have to go through some experiences to

learn.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. .
I did the same thing. I think with my program, you know, like I just sort of
stumbled across all these tools like breathing and yoga and mindfulness in my
own personal journey.

And I'm like, it's the same thing. You know, I really wish I
had known this and I'm like, well, I'll put it together for people that don't
know, because, you know, I just started doing it too. And then researched it.
I'm like, oh yeah. Okay. So that'll make sense now of why it works. Yeah. It's
like a love letter to the younger you, isn't it?

Leigh Anderson:

yeah,
that's right. Your words, not mine.

Rosie Skene:

I'll
take that.

You've written a book, you're obviously, you know, promoting the book now.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

You're a
busy guy. What do you do in, the time that you have off? to support
yourself because this stuff is, you know, just one of these things on its own
is pretty hectic. Um, so I can imagine like it's stressful, but probably a
really great stress and something very exciting for you, especially now
promoting the book because it's so good and, and you'll, I'm sure get great
feedback from people that have read it,

but what are you doing to support yourself , in the off times?

Leigh Anderson:

It's
a great question.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Leigh Anderson:

I've
been really bad with exercise lately. , which I would feel like I need to, I
might even go today now, you might have prompted me. Yeah. Get into it. Thanks.
, yeah, like that's been, that's sort of gone off the radar with the recent
working full time book. I've got two young kids as well.

Um, and yeah, I feel like they've been affected a bit recently,
like especially last month. , most of the writing I did once I were in bed, so
I'll just be up late. Yes. , for me, it's, uh, just going for a walk near the
ocean. So I have an affinity with the ocean. , I love sailing. Sailing's like
my passion, but I haven't been for a long time because I actually just sold my
sailboat.

It's very sad. Oh. Um, but, uh, yeah, going sailing and, ,
particularly racing. I like. Because when you're in a race and competitive, you
don't have time to think about other things. , Jeremy Holder from TechMed. He
said something great to me. He does, , I think it's Jiu Jitsu or something he's
learning at the moment.

And I'm like, Oh, how do you deal with your stress with running
a business? And he goes, Oh, well, Jiu Jitsu is pretty good. Cause when
someone's got you in a headlock, you don't have much time to think about your
business. And I guess that's what sailing when I'm racing is for me. Cause it's
like, you're looking at the wind, the tide, the other boats, or how can we get
over it?

And you're so focused on that task that. It just clears you
from all your other stress and worry. And I think that's what's mostly
important about taking a break is it just don't think of anything for a while.
Yeah. Yeah. , so mine's just, , being near the ocean, going for a walk along
the ocean.

And it doesn't have to be long, like, I think people feel like,
oh, I don't have time for that. That'll be like an hour out of my day or an
hour and a half to two hours. So you can just go outside for 10 minutes and
you'll be refreshed. That's all it is. It's, it's not this like major task.
Walking in itself is a great way to deal with stress.

Um, you know, we're, we're built to, to walk and when you walk
things, you're going past your eyes. So, it, it, it changes your focus and your
processing of when you're looking at the things that you walk past. Yeah. , so
yeah, walking is really good. Um, but yeah, that's the main thing. I haven't
been great last month.

Thank you.

Rosie Skene:

Get into
it. Don't get outside. Um, I've been relying

Leigh Anderson:

on
my, uh, my experience.

Yeah. I will do
like, I do certain things. I'll, um, I can do like a one minute little
breathing exercise, close my eyes for 30 seconds. Um, little tricks like that.
Um, but I'm not doing any sort of long term, like, you know, things like
meditation, um, exercise, that sort of thing.

I'm, I'm lacking. Um, but other things that are. Helping with
my resilience now is, um, like the social engagement for sure, because with the
book I get to go meet and talk to a lot of people, which is really fun, and
that always Fills me up. .

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Yeah. I, that's why I love doing this podcast because, you know, I get to meet
people like you and people that I've not met before, but, um, with a very
similar interest and it's so nice being able to just meet new people and be
social in that way.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah,
totally. And it's amazing how people just open up and start sharing their
stories because you've opened up Yeah. Like if. If you start being vulnerable
and opening up and share a story of you, then people are so willing to share
it, their story with, with you. And that's amazing. Just listening to those
stories.

Yeah. I don't want to hear myself. I don't want to talk, but
I'm more interested to listening to you.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
that's it. And you're giving people permission, I think is what the thing is.
Like people feel like they need permission to feel vulnerable or share their
story or have emotions or feelings about what's going on, or just to feel
normal about, um, what they've been through as well.

So I think that's what we do when we speak out or write a book.

Leigh Anderson:

book.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, writing the book was mate, it was, um, like a lot of
this. The stories that I write about my ambulance cases that I went to, that
was like a journaling experience. And it was a tough, like tough than normal
journaling, because normally you just write it and you're done.

But then you would send it to your editor and they would come
back and like, no, you need to re read this, re do this. Can you expand on
this? And then you like got to revisit the case all over again. And then you
send it to someone to proofread and they're like, I don't really like it. Can
you just check this bit again?

And like, oh, like, but through that process, I, like a few of
the stories that I wrote about, , I thought I was like sharing, like I share a
few failures in there and, , which at the start, I felt like I put too many in
there and I'm like, I need to start writing some jobs that I did well, people
are going to think I'm the worst paramedic.

So I was like, there's a few ones where I do well in there. I'm
like, yeah, just to even up the school, you know,

Rosie Skene:

balance
those scales. Yeah.

Leigh Anderson:

But
it was like, when you start journaling and writing, um, I was actually be able
to look at it from a different perspective and see it from a bit of self
compassion as well.

And some of those mistakes I made, it's like, well, oh, hang
on. Now I've written this story down five times, , and really gone into it
quite deeply. I've realised that, yeah, it was two in the morning. It was
raining sideways. I was by myself. There was 10 drunk people and blah, blah,
blah. It's like, yeah, I'm not surprised I didn't perform at my best.

Yeah, and it's probably, that's okay. And then you can actually
give yourself some compassion about that and not beat yourself up about some of
your human failings.

Rosie Skene:

You talk
a bit in the book about mistakes and, um, success as well. So how would you
define success?

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah,
it was, , it was actually, I, I first read it from a basketball coach.

, he was a college coach. He's quite famous in the U S, um,
John Wooten. and he's written this whole thing about a pyramid of success. ,
but he first started off, he was basically his real passion was teaching. So he
was just a teacher. He taught college students English and he got really
frustrated with parents that would come in and say that their kids failing or
why did you give my son a C, they should get A's.

Um, you know, but for him, he was looking at that student and
going, well, that student worked his ass off. He did his absolute best and he
got a C and that's fine. And he goes, I was sick of people. Rating success on
whether you got an A, B or C because for that individual, that C was success.
So he wrote his own definition.

, And I'll probably butcher it, but it's basically, , peace of
mind in knowing that you made the effort to do the best of which you are
capable. So it's self satisfaction is in there as well. And it's not, and the
only person that knows that they're successful is you. Because you know that
you've done everything within your power to the best of which you are capable
of doing.

And I really like that definition. , and here's a guy that went
on, he was very successful, like, in the, uh, modern way of seeing success.
Like, he's won 10 national champion basketball championships. He's had, like, I
think the highest percentage of his players have gone on to play in the NBA. So
he's an extremely successful person, but he never measured himself on that.

He said when he was in a state championship final basketball
game, he literally had to take a free throw to win the game for the state. And
he said he went up there and he missed the shot, completely missed it. And the
other teams jumped around and he said he went into the sheds. And his team was
like, they'll all sit in there crying and bawling and he was completely fine.

Like there was nothing wrong with him. Everyone's like, what's
wrong with you? He's like, well, I practiced a million times. I've done so many
shots, but I just happened to miss this one. And that's okay. Cause I know that
I did everything within my power to do the best and perform the best at that
moment.

But I just missed. And for me, that was a real item. I'm like,
wow, that completely changed the way I look at success because we look at
success of material gain or wealth or money, um, accolades, that sort of thing.
But it's really about have I done my best to perform in that moment as me and
my personality in my body.

Um, And that really changed. And I'll tell a story in the book

where I went to this patient who, um, it was quite freaky. Actually, it was my
first time. I went to a cardiac arrest where the patient we were doing CPR so
well. And there was bystanders that started compressions before we got there,
that they have this phenomenon where they have consciousness.

So you're pumping enough blood. enough oxygen and you're
performing CPR so well that they actually start to become awake. They have
neurological function. And this patient actually grabbed my wrist and grabbed
my arm and stared at me and was like, looking at me. I completely freaked out.
It was like, I was trying to put a needle in and like, this guy's grabbed my
wrist and I'm like, he's got a pulse.

He's alive. And then we stopped completely out to nothing, like
no pulse in cardiac arrest. And it's like, start doing CPR again and then he
like, woke, like his eyes wake up again and you're like, it's the freakiest
thing and I'll never forget when he grabbed me. It was like, like someone dead
grabbing you.

It was crazy. But we, uh, we performed CPR on this guy for 45
minutes. We shocked him 17 times and we eventually, we got a rhythm like four
times and he, Like a, a pulse back four times and he kept going in arrest, out
arrest, in arrest, out arrest. The family was there, you know, their like
daughters and everything screaming, like it was a very heightened scene.

Yeah. Devastating for them having to watch this, you know. And
, I remember, yeah, hearing the daughter like begging for us to save him. And
we got a, eventually got a, the final pulse and then he was good. And he, and
he didn't arrest again. We got him to hospital and I'm like, oh, that was
great. Like we performed really well.

. But then, two weeks later, I heard that he died in hospital.
He had an ischemic bowel because he was down for too long and he's, when you,
your, , your blood shunts to the most vital organs and your bowel's one of the
last ones, like, one of the first organs to lose blood flow. So his bowel went
ischemic and he got septic and died in hospital.

And I was okay with that. And that was because I thought my
definition, according to the definition of success, like we did everything
within our power to, , we did the best of what we were capable of doing in that
moment. And we gave him every chance to survive, but he didn't and it's about
knowing that, , I have peace of mind in that moment because I knew that I did
my best for which I was capable.

It's the moments when I don't do my best. Affect me. Yeah. So
that changing that definition of success, you could, you could get that a or
you could save that person's life. But if it's. It doesn't mean that you did
your best. You still might've done something wrong.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, I,
I totally agree. Like it's, there's a lot riding on your job and you doing your
best literally like people's lives are in your hands.

But I have had conversations with my children at this time of
year, usually. And at the end, because their report cards are due, right? And,
I say to them, cause they've got that little, um, effort for each subject.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.
Yeah. I like that.

Rosie Skene:

If that effort is high.

I don't care what the results are, really, like, you know, we
can improve on them, obviously. But as long as you put in the greatest amount
of effort, and if all you get, like you said, is a C, then that's what you get.
But you've tried your hardest and you have to be happy with that. And I know
there's people out there that pay their kids 50 bucks or 100 bucks for an A
and, you know, for a B you get whatever.

I'm not giving you any money. Like,

Leigh Anderson:

yeah,
they've probably got an IQ of 190.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
that's right.

Leigh Anderson:

You
should be getting like triple A's.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
that's it. I don't believe in that, but I do believe in putting in the effort
and, and then being able to sit with that and know that you've done everything
that you can in your power with your knowledge, um, to do the best thing.

And it really helps with your mindset, doesn't it? Like, and I
can imagine it changes everything.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:
Especially as a paramedic. Having people's lives or a doctor or whatever job
you do, but something that's so serious like that, you have to be able to have
that mindset. Otherwise it will eat you up.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.

Cause you are human and you will fail and you will make
mistakes. Um, and then that changes, you know, it's like, well, okay, I did the
best I could in that moment. And even if you didn't, it's like, okay, well, how
can I learn from that situation? How can I grow? I'll take accountability for
it. I'll accept it.

And then. You start to share it with other people, so then they
don't make the same mistake as you, and then that's how you, you grow and
learn, um, all protocols and medical, um, guidelines are all written through
mistakes. They say they're written in blood because it's from, but if those
people didn't make the mistake, someone else will, or it will, and if you try
and hide it, then that mistake will continue to happen and then other people
will be affected.

So it's about taking accountability, ownership, accepting it as
if you chose it. And then learn from it and then teach it.

Rosie Skene:

Yes.
Yeah, that's beautiful.

Leigh Anderson:

And
I'm saying it's, it's, it's normal. You're a human. You're not perfect. Cause I
really struggled with it because you know, I want it to be perfect.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. It's something that I'm, I'm a recovering perfectionist, um, how I like to
label it.

There's something beautiful in knowing that there's no such thing as perfect and
everything's a learning experience. So, and I think that's where a growth
mindset comes in, doesn't it? And that,

Leigh Anderson:

yeah.

Rosie Skene:
Continual learning, you know, you speak about in your book as well, um, people,
you know, that flourish really have those, , skills, abilities that, that they

want to keep learning.

They want to keep growing. Um, and, and that's how you get to
that stage, I think.

Leigh Anderson:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Leigh,
it's been an absolute pleasure. I'm going to link, um, to all the places people
can find your book, the paramedic mindset. It's a, an amazing read. It's so
informative, but practical as well. So I think you've really, , done what you
set out to achieve with it in, in it being so practical.

Thank you so much for coming on today and for sharing your
story and a little bit about the book. Not too much because we still want
people to go and read it. Yeah,

Leigh Anderson:

yeah.
There's plenty in there.

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

It's a
great book and I strongly recommend that you have a highlighter when you read
it so you can highlight all the little, um, tid bits in there that you want to
come back to, but thank you so much for your time.

Leigh Anderson:

Thank
so much for having me. It's been great. I love it. Yeah, it's been, I wanna
hear more about your story now. .

Rosie Skene:

You can
go back to episode, I think it's two or three. .

Leigh Anderson:

I'll, will

Rosie Skene:

Thanks
again, Leigh it's been an absolute pleasure.

Leigh Anderson:

No
worries.

Rosie Skene:

I hope
you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, make sure to hit subscribe so you
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Your support means the world. My name is Rosie Skene join me
again next week for another empowering and positive episode of Triumph Beyond
Trauma. Until then, be kind to your mind and trust in the magic of your
consistent and positive efforts. Triumph Beyond your trauma is closer than you
think. Have the best week.