Rosie Skene:

Hello, and welcome to episode 20. And the final episode for season two

of Triumph Beyond Trauma. I'll be taking a little break for a couple of

weeks to hang out with the kiddies before heading into season three.

So please take the opportunity to listen to any past episodes you might've

missed. Or take the time to leave a five star rating review or share the podcast to your community.

I would deeply appreciate the feedback and I would love for the algorithm to

work in favour of getting these episodes into the ears of those who may need it most.

Today I speak with an absolute legend human Tiffanee Cook.

Tiffanee is a dynamic force in the world of boxing, coaching, podcasting

and speaking. Driven by a passion to understand why some people thrive after life's challenges.

As a boxer and coach her experiences shape her insightful approach to

personal development. Her podcast is a rich tapestry of narratives, where

she explores a range of topics from mindset and adversity to neuroscience and

resilience. She blends personal stories with scientific research, offering listeners

diverse perspectives on human potential and growth.

As a certified coach and

personal trainer, Tiffany's dedicated to guiding her clients towards holistic wellbeing,

addressing mental, physical, and emotional health. She helps him unravel the stories and

behaviours that limit their potential. Advocating for a balanced and fulfilling life.

Tiffany sees life. as a grand boxing ring, embracing a philosophy of resilience and

adaptability. Her message is clear let's embrace life's challenges and roll with the punches.

I can't wait for you to listen to this episode.

so let's get stuck in.

Welcome
to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores journeys of resilience and
hope. I'm Rosie Skene, a yoga and breathwork teacher and founder of Tactical
Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mum to three beautiful kids and a
medically retired NSW police officer with PTSD, I understand the challenges of
navigating mental health in the first responder and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've
confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness
and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together, we'll
uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter future.
Whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or just a friendly
reminder that you're not alone, Triumph Beyond Trauma has got your back.

You matter, and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life
starts right here.

Tiff Cook. Welcome to
Triumph Beyond Trauma. I'm so thrilled to have you here.

Tiff Cook:

So glad to
be here, Rosie, how are you?

Rosie Skene:

I'm
very, very well, and how are you?

Tiff Cook:

I'm good.
I'm good. Old, but good.

Rosie Skene:

You are
a busy person. You're a boxer, a podcaster, speaker, a coach, a personal
trainer.

You're all the things. How do you fit that into your life?

Tiff Cook:

I don't
know, mate, sometimes I ask myself the same question. Uh, but what I will say
is I feel really fortunate because I, I've squeezed a little bit of everything
in. So it's a really good mix and a good balance for me to have, you know, just
a range of things to do.

Sometimes I'm in the gym with people. Sometimes I'm on zoom,
having conversations with people. Sometimes I'm getting busy with marketing and
running a new program. And I just. Took me a long time to find that balance for
me, my version of balance for me.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Yeah. I remember when I first started seeing a psychologist, my very first
appointment, she said, Rosie, what you need is balance in your life.

And I'm like, yeah, actually, I think I do.

Tiff Cook:

What even
is that?

It's psychologist. What does that mean?

Rosie Skene:

Absolutely. Tiff, do you want to tell us a little bit about your story, , and
how you've come to be where you are now?

Tiff Cook:

Yeah. I
mean, where am I even? Um, so I was, I'm from Tassie originally. I was a young
Tassie last, I grew up in a little country town, country beach town called
Turner's beach.

It was a little bit like summer bay for all of those home and
away listeners. And funnily enough, my mom and dad actually closely resemble
Alf and Elsa and we had the shop in Turner's beach. I reflect back and I'm
like, that's really funny and cute.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Tiff Cook:

Okay. But,
, moved over here just before I'd turned 20.

So I moved over to Melbourne and decided to chase the big smoke
and do the things and be amazing. And, you know, I worked in, in kind of the
corporate, corporate life for all of that time. And then at 29, I raised my
hand to do a corporate boxing challenge, uh, 12 week zero to hero style boxing
event, which little did I know at the time, like I thought I was just choosing
just another attention seeking kind of what, what can I do that chicks don't do
what's exhilarating, like, you know, just a bit of, uh, first to things kind of
person that I am.

And, um, and it was all of that and a whole lot more. And I,
when I look back now, it was really a catalyst for a lot of change and also a
lot of. Diving deep into realizing who I am and who I'm not and unpacking a
whole bunch of stuff. But after a couple of years of boxing, I started, I quit
my job and became a personal trainer.

So I started doing a bit of personal training on the side and
really loved it. And, and got to a point where I thought, well, I can't do both
of these things because I'm too busy. Too busy is a bit of a theme, Rosie, as
you can see, I haven't dropped the too busy. I've just changed how it looks.
But I thought I can't, I can't keep saying yes to clients and also keep Working
full time.

And I felt like there's so many people that became personal
trainers wanting to quit their jobs. And so I felt like I kind of owed it to
the opportunity to give it a go. I thought, well, I can always go back to work
and I've never looked back. So now I do personal training and I love teaching
people the art of boxing.

, I've had 14 fights myself under my belt. It's, it's both my,
I guess my passion, but also my therapy. Like it's a, it's a real place. If I
call it like the canvas is like a mirror, it's the mirror to my soul. Like it's
the one place. In my early thirties that I, that showed me, it was like the
first mirror I looked in that told the truth.

Rosie Skene:

I love
that you call it the art of boxing , and then you said that's your therapy and
all of those things, that's what we do. Really great for helping us, you know,
mentally is to find something that's therapeutic or like art, . And that was so
nice that you've said that about boxing, because a lot of people wouldn't think
that.

Tiff Cook:

Yeah,
well, it's a very, it's funny because this year, Mark Seymour, who's, for
anyone that doesn't, isn't familiar, he was the lead singer of Hunters and
Collectors. So he's written some really influential music over the years under
that banner for Australian rock music. And this year he released, so I've been
training him for the last two years after having him on my podcast when I first
started the show and we, we sparked an interest over boxing He's just released
an album called The Boxer and the title track is called The Boxer and it's
written based on the conversation we had, based on kind of what I'd shared with
him about, about my journey and my connection with boxing and that really
grabbed him.

And what's been interesting is as he releases that album,
Understanding how people perceive boxing, uh, relative to actually what, what
the art of it is and what, what's underneath. And, you know, cause it can come
across to people like a real brutal sport, like a violent sport. Oh, I don't
agree with boxing.

It's, you know, it's whatever we think it is. I know when I was
young in Tassie, a friend was dating a boxer, her boyfriend boxed and I
couldn't watch. Right. And now I don't see it the same way I saw it back then.
It's really. It's really interesting just to understand how we perceive things.
So, yeah. And just

Rosie Skene:

having
that extra bit of knowledge of what's actually going on there as well, would
help with that, right?

Tiff Cook:

Oh, a
hundred percent. You know, like, I just remember kind of that, that almost
shock of seeing myself unfold in front of my own eyes and, and the stuff that
came up over that first couple of years of boxing and going like, I've, we're
all storytellers, we're reason making machines. So I'd. I'd rolled through life
for three decades, justified, like just a little justification factory,
justifying my decisions and choices and behaviours in the best light possible,
which was great, right?

Cause I'd, you know, I thought I'm independent, I'm strong, I'm
decisive. I do this. I'm so brave. I'm so courageous, but it would, that was
the, that was the flavour I was putting over all of my decisions. In the boxing
ring, you don't have time to justify your behaviours because you have to behave
before the conscious mind can come into play.

So someone throws a punch at you and the most primal part of
you reacts and you have to watch, you watch that play out and you learn very
quickly. There's no story to be told here. I can't sit and create a story of
how I'm going to react. I'm going to react. And sometimes that reaction is not
who I thought I was.

And then the beauty about the art of boxing is I then get to
change that. And you can't change one thing in one area without it flowing out
into your life and changing other, other areas of your life, in my opinion,
anyway, if you really deeply can connect with it. And. And make that
understanding.

Rosie Skene:

I've
listened to quite a few of your podcasts and I know that you, , have anxiety or
have had anxiety before.

And do you find that boxing really helps you with that and
managing any symptomology that you might have?

Tiff Cook:

Yeah,
look, I think, I think what boxing did for me was give me emotional literacy. I
think you used that term with me the other day and I liked that, like emotional
literacy. I didn't. I don't think that I ever felt, I didn't feel before, like
I didn't, I wasn't connected to my body.

And I think that's why after a couple of years, those first two
years in boxing, when I started to keep returning to this canvas and stepping
into physical discomfort and showing up and, and letting me, myself be in it.
regardless of how, how I felt, I actually started to connect with, with emotion
again, and I feel like that's what's made me curious and start seeking and
start uncovering that, that trauma that I had suppressed and tucked into the
back of my mind for so many years.

So I feel like I never identified as someone, I was saying to
someone the other day, the funny thing is about my connection to boxing and
most people have this story of This thing happened, there was this hardship, I
was in a bad place, then I found the solution. I, I didn't identify with that,
I, I identified with someone who had a great life.

I found, the solution found me before I realized there was
something to solve or something to discover. And so I was embedded in this
process and then the, the lessons and the self awareness and the self
realization started to emerge from underneath that. So, in answer to your
question, I, I developed this relationship with what is anxiety and, and how do
we manage it and control it?

I don't know if I ever identified the first thing. Time I
fought the first day of my fight, the anxiety that I felt, which I wouldn't
even use the word anxiety. I remember saying to my mom, I will never in my life
do anything like this again, because there's nothing in the world that could be
worth how I feel right now.

And I didn't have words for what that feeling was. Now that was
massive anxiety. I was debilitated for the day with anxiety. I didn't know what
it felt like before. And I probably wouldn't have even called it anxiety on
that day. Cause I didn't. I don't have words for that, but it was yuck. And
obviously I did the fight anyway.

And what was on the other side of that was so enormous in the
most positive way that that feeling that I had on that day that I said I'd
never, ever, ever face again for any reason. That was, that was nothing. I was
like, that's. That's now a small thing that doesn't even compare to what was on
the other side.

So you start to build, and this is why I think even yoga, that,
that, you know, you're really passionate about that. I did it last night.
Thanks very much. Inspired me to do that. Get yourself on the mat and sit in
the feelings and go when you don't want to go and do the thing. And then you
start to be able to sit in the middle of the feeling and analyze it and go,
what is this?

You know, like, am I. Anxious right before a fight. Hell yeah,
but it's the same symptomology as excitement. I'm there cause I want to be
there. So we start to understand that, yeah, there's this, there's a
physiological response in the body, but also that's okay. Cause there's, cause
I have a relationship with that and, and I can alter my relationship with that.

And when I am able to do that, then the reaction from my body,
I get to manage it. And I think sport and physical training is, is the
playground for exactly that.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, I
agree with you and what you're saying there with boxing, , you have to sit with
that being uncomfortable, but then learning that that's only temporary.

And that's what I find with yoga too. And a lot of people. Um,
excuse me, that I know, get that same thing, you know, you learn that things in
life are only temporary through these practices, whether it be boxing or yoga
or whatever else you choose to do. And that can help to ease a lot of anxious
feelings, you know, because you're like, okay, hello, old friend anxiety, or
hello, I'm feeling a little bit sad today, but this is only temporary and ,
then something else will happen.

And I think that's what you get from these practices, right?
And sports. Thanks.

Tiff Cook:

A hundred
percent. And one that really stands out in boxing is the idea of how fickle our
own perception of our performance is. Now, I remember this one distinct time I
was sparring, preparing for a fight and doing a lot of sparring.

I was sparring, happened to spar a girl that was 10 years in
the game. And I was quite new at that stage, 10 years in the game. She was
probably three or four weight divisions higher. So she was a bigger build than
me. And she'd won titles and all sorts. So she was good, right? She was best in
the gym and I'm sparring with her.

And I sat down at the end, , feeling quite overwhelmed about it
all. And I was sitting there and the coach could obviously tell. And he came
over, he goes, what's wrong with you? And I was like, I just, you know, I was
just, I was just feeling frustrated. Cause if. My perception of how I, you
know, you're trying to manage yourself in an unmanageable environment.

I can't control her. I can only control me. And, and my
perception was, I'm just not getting any better at this. Like I'm really
frustrated. And he goes, Are you for real? That's the best you've ever sparred
and no one has ever put that much pressure on Carly in this gym, ever. And I
went, and I just looked at him and went, what a shit sport, eh?

Right? I just did the best I've ever done.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
And

Tiff Cook:

I'm
sitting here and my interpretation of it is that I've done the worst. So it
starts to. That lesson that happens enough times that the lesson is in your
mind that, you know, it doesn't matter what I think. I feel the same on
podcasts often, Rosie, and I've done over 800 of them.

And sometimes in the middle of the conversations, I'm sitting
there going, you're so embarrassingly bad at this today. You're not, you're
giving, you're not giving the guest a great experience. You're not, you're not
getting the, you're not going to be enjoying this, all of that narrative. And
sometimes I'll edit the episode later and go, gee, that was a really great
conversation.

Yeah. Yeah. So you start to go, well, what I, sometimes what I
think doesn't matter in the moment.

Rosie Skene:

And
yeah, and, but the ability though, to go back and have a think about how you're
thinking is a whole nother skill set, right? Like that takes a lot of emotional
intelligence to be able to actually do that and then take something from that
and go, you know what?

Those thoughts in that time, they weren't right. That's that's
not what was going on at all. So it's, and it's an act of kindness to yourself
to be able to do that.

Tiff Cook:

Yeah, and
I know you've had Mark Thomas on before, and once when I've spoken to him, when
he talked about acknowledging that idea that I am not my thoughts, my thoughts
aren't, like, that is not who I am, like I, cause if I am my thoughts, I
wouldn't be able to observe them.

As some sort of different entity. So even just the language
around how we, in our own minds, how we talk about or to, to ourselves or
observe our own thoughts like that and go, Oh, that's like, sometimes I just
go, well, what's interesting that I seem to be feeling like this right now,
that's interesting.

It's like, Oh, you know, like just getting curious about stuff
rather than letting it.

Rosie Skene:

Um, I
find something like I don't do it much anymore. I'm much kinder to myself now,
but I would in my head say things about myself that I would never say about
anyone ever, even if they were the worst person I'd ever met.

I would never talk to a person the way I spoke to myself. Isn't
it crazy? Like just, yeah. Like, yeah, yeah,

Tiff Cook:

I, I, the
other day I was in the gym training a friend who's now a client and we're
standing in front of the mirrors and I'm teaching her technique. And so I'm
showing her how to, how to shadow box and how to do these movements.

And I look into the mirror. As I always do, but I go, and I say
it out loud, I'm like, Oh, like, look at the bags under my eyes. And I start
just kind of mumbling and laughing, like in a joke and we're laughing about
that. And she's, she's doing this shadow box and then she goes, hang on, she
was like. Is that like inner dialogue just coming right out?

And I'm like, and I love, I go, yeah, actually it is. She goes,
cause as she hears me start talking, she thinks that I'm saying, Oh, Oh, like,
look at that. And she's paying all this attention to, like, she can't see the
bags on my face. She's looking at this amazing technique she's learning and how
smooth I make it look, and she's soaking that up.

And then this lag in conversation catches up and she's like,
hang on a minute. And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Like that, I was letting myself do
that in the moment and that is not nice. Like I wouldn't do that to a person.
Hmm.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
You're not saying to her, look at the bags under your eyes. I know.

Tiff Cook:

It's like,
we're both standing under a light that puts shadows under our eyeballs.

Like we both have a shadow under our eyeballs right now, but
I'm berating myself for it and not her. Yeah,

Rosie Skene:

we can
be the most horrible person to ourselves. Oh my goodness. Something I saw
actually on your website is the quote, maybe you already have everything you
need to be happy. And you've got a couple of great quotes on your website, but
I particularly really liked this one because I think we can all get so carried
away with.

Wanting the next thing that we cannot sit and be content in
what we have right now. And, you know, when you talk to people, like even
friends and family, , how are you going? Oh yeah, pretty good. But you know,
this is happening or, you know, I can't wait for Friday. I can't wait for this.
And when I get this, things will be better.

But I think as, as humans, we just have this urge to always be
wanting more. And, you know, No, one's really sitting in what we have right
now. And that just, I love that so much because it's something that I've really
worked on over the last five years, especially as contentment, not always
waiting. Like, yes, there's, it's great to have goals and things that you want
in life to achieve or, or do, but being able to just say, okay, well, this is
good right now.

And I have everything that I, I could need. Where did that come
from for you? I

Tiff Cook:

think
it's, I think it's curiosity, right? Because I, I hang out with people that
have, you know, I've. My, my, people's energy plays a big, big role on how I am
thinking, behave. And I always notice it in times, always to kind of take
stock, whether it be times when I'm not feeling great.

And I'll be like, okay, who am I spending time with? What are
their attributes? What are, what are our conversations like? And then times
when I'm doing really well, I'm like, who's around me? Who's, who's, who's
energy am I feeding off? And it's always reflected. But also it's that
realizing, especially in things like business or, or networking, it's who am I
around, who am I aligned with?

What's my perception of where they're at? And what's their
perception? And it's really interesting sometimes seeing, realizing that I'm,
I'm looking up to people and then I peek in and they're a version of me. And
I'm going, but you've, but you're doing here, doing this, um, achieving this.
Yeah. Like, my perception of where you're at is where I want to be, and your
perception of where you're at is where I feel like I am.

And then I go, well, hang on, I'm a version of that, because
there's someone else on a, on a level looking at me going, gee, I'd love to be
there, and I'm like, because we like to point the finger. Oh, that person
they've got, they've got all of the things and they're not happy, but I'm well
aware that I am a version of that.

Right. I went to the, the what was it eating out the other
night and I went to the bathroom and I had to go out to the back courtyard and
their, their bathroom was a kind of outdoors. So there's the outdoor courtyard
and then the bathroom in there and it's freezing in Melbourne right now. And as
I was in the bathroom, it was so icy cold and for some reason, I guess, cause
it was outdoors.

I just. I just thought to myself, people, there are homeless
people are sleeping in this cold. Like, cause I just saw that dark little, I
was like, you know, it's outdoors. Why don't people just hide away in here? And
then I just thought, God, it is so cold for the people that don't have homes
right now. And I've got a home and I've got heaters and I've been whinging
about power bills, but I have the choice, right?

It's not that I can't afford to run them. It's that I have a
choice of whether I want to spend that much money to heat my house. And that's
really fortunate, you know, and I don't think we always, I just see that play
out at all of the different levels and I want to be careful. That I'm taking
stock and really being, really being happy.

I think about, I remember once just strolling around Elwood in
a daydream, thinking about this and thinking, wondering if, if we focus on
being, being happy, you know, that whole idea of positive affirmations or, you
know, like just our thoughts, managing our thoughts in our mind. And we just
decided to be happy rather than chase the circumstances with the expectation
that when I, when, when I make.

This much money and can buy this and do this and have this,
then I'll be happy. Cause whether we say it or not, that seems to be the idea
that we adopt. But if I could work on the being happy now, I'd be at the end
game. But then I wondered to myself, if we did that with people, so we've got
this range of people, would people, once you got happy.

Would you end up at the goals that you say you need to have to
be happy, or would you lose the drive to be it, or would it matter in the end?
If you had the happiness, would it matter? Would you naturally get the goals
easier? Like we say, that you gotta be happy to do things in order to get
somewhere.

Totally not articulating it well, but you're with me. I'm with
you. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I think of that, I go, well, yeah,
it's interesting. I've been doing a lot of, um, not a lot, once a week, right.
Just recently started going and doing Buddhist meditations. And you know, I, I
love that. Just, they Kind of brain dump philosophies that float around in your
head and it's interesting because there's nothing to do with them.

The first thing, the first night I went as my busy little me,
that's usually punching faces and running and doing all the things and
thinking, I was like, you know what? I need a bit of meditation. And we go in
and it's both very simple, but incredibly complex, the philosophies they speak
of. And I sat there in the room looking around, thinking what level people are
at and what, how they're interpreting it.

And the main thing that stood out was, they're not. Everyone in
this day and age, and that's probably me just speaking on behalf of people I
shouldn't, it feels like everyone, we all want the solution. I want to go to, I
want to go to a Buddhism class to learn what I have to do in order to be happy
or in order to stop doing, right.

Cause that's essentially what I'm going for. I'm going to stop
doing, but it's like, what do I have to do to stop doing? And there's none,
everything they spoke of, there was nothing to do. There was no decision you
had to make. They were just days. Things that were said that then, for me, it
just felt like they will sit in my mind and they will shift how I view the
world if and when it needs to, I don't need to do anything with it.

to change my mind about anything. It's just this thing that I
now contemplate, not even consciously, I don't think. Hmm. And I think with

Rosie Skene:

things
like, you know, those sort of practices and, and those philosophies, they sort
of, they do sit with you, don't they? They just like, like little files on the
computer, like just in the back of your mind, and then something will spark
that philosophy again.

You know, it could be a couple of days, weeks, months, or
years, doesn't matter. Maybe like have a, have that thought and then think
about that philosophy and go, right. Okay. Yeah. This is, this is how it is in
my life or this is how I'm perceiving that, um, it's, it's actually really
incredible.

Tiff Cook:

Yeah. And
it's like, what does it even mean?

And you go, I don't know. What does it need to mean? Well, I
don't know. We'll see. And having these internal conversations. So much chatter
so much chatter Rosie.

Rosie Skene:

Oh, it
makes me laugh so much. Um, you are the host of the Roll With The Punches
podcast, and you have got more than 800 episodes in a very, very short time.

It blows my mind how many episodes you've done. Is it only four
years? It's only four years. Yeah. Yeah. You must be a mad woman. It's pretty
much, pretty much. Or you just really love a chat.

Tiff Cook:

I do
really love a chat. You know, I only, I started it. Because we would, we were
thrust into COVID.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Tiff Cook:

I had
gyms, they obviously the pause button got hit on that.

And my, my thoughts were, this could be it for me. Like, we're
not making money out of those gyms yet. My business partners, they're all,
they're. As when I chose to go into that, I was going in with three business
partners. They were all very financially a okay. And I felt like the, so the
question I asked at that, that, that initial time was, Hey, if this goes bad,
just a little blip on the radar for them.

But for you, it's, it's a complete white, your canvas
completely clean. Like this, if, if this doesn't go well, it's you, you lose
everything. You start again. You don't have a big support base. Will you accept
that you will learn enough or change enough to. If that happens, cause it's
likely, right? It's a likely scenario that we don't like to acknowledge when we
go into business.

And so when COVID hit, I remember sitting in the front yard and
just going, cool. Well, this is it. Uh, you've answered the question, so you
can't complain about it. You asked yourself the question and you answered it
and you said, it's okay. Uh, wasn't supposed to be a pandemic, but that's what
it is right now.

Maybe you'll lose everything. So how about you just pretend
that you have, so you can make amends with that. Right. Just pretend it's
bankruptcy. That's it. That's your slate. And so I decided whatever I spent my
time on was going to be something that couldn't, that I couldn't lose
financially. And that came down to.

Building a brand and an audience and a skillset. And I always
loved speaking and networking. So it was building a network, connecting with
great people, working on what was essentially communication skills. And within
three months, I just was blown away. I felt like I'd been to university. I was
like, this is, this is, I've, I've never learned in a way that I've learned by
having these types of conversations.

And it literally changed my life. Me and the world that I live
in, like I'm not the same person and the world is not the same place because I
get to borrow 800 different perspectives and counting for an hour at a time and
contemplate and hear and learn and just like Buddhism that sits in your mind
and all of a sudden you're different.

Pretty cool.

Rosie Skene:

It's so
cool. It's so cool. I love, I love it so much, you know, this is episode 20 for
me and I feel exactly the same after just a few episodes, I've learned so much
and you mentioned Mark Thomas. Um, he's an amazing man with the Code Nine
Foundation and I know that you're an ambassador for them as well.

, how did that come about?

Tiff Cook:

That was
the podcast. He reached out to me in the really early days when I started the
podcast. I was working online with Ambulance Victoria Paramedics, uh, and in
the program that I had set them, I was training them four days a week. And on
the fifth day, I decided to do a, I called it feel good Friday.

And the, the idea was initially just a get together, you know,
a point of connection for those who didn't want some psychopath screaming
burpees down the zooms, down the zoom camera. So it started out as that very
quickly. I started getting, , people to join me to give some value, some
speakers, aromatherapy, , talking about emotions, talking about people who've
been through hard stuff.

Then that sparked really, I looked at the line up of speakers
I'd given them and went like, that's thousands of dollars worth of speakers,
and these are just people in my network. So I went, Oh, and because I had that
brand affiliation, it gave me the confidence to reach out to networks that I
probably wouldn't have when I could say, Hi.

Could you have a conversation with us for Ambulance Victoria
Paramedic? So that was really the beginning of, I was borrowing a bit of
confidence from that.

Uh, and yeah, that, that's planted the seed. So because of the
episodes I was doing with first responders, Mark saw that through the networks
he was in and reached out and said, we love what you're doing.

We'd love So yeah, and then here we are four years later,
they're legends. We continue to have lots of conversations and he's doing great
stuff.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
they are doing great stuff and such a good organization to be associated with
for sure. Yeah.

Tiff Cook:

I think
I'm interested in, I'm -interested in you and what you're doing. And I guess
out of the 20 episodes you've done on your show so far, now I'm turning it
around. But I like to compare like what, cause, cause I remember, you know,
like I remember distinctly how I felt, but I can't remember the lessons I
learned or what I expected or didn't expect.

What have, what's. Being for you, the, like, what's something
through podcasting or the conversations or the, that you've learned that you
didn't expect from, from this?

Rosie Skene:

I just,
Something, this is something that I was hoping, but I have come to realise that
it is a thing is that the power that listening to people or having
conversations with people, the power that words can have.

And , you can make a post on Instagram or Facebook, but that's
forgotten in about two seconds. I think someone was telling me our attention
has gone down to seconds. Like Singular seconds now, like seven seconds, I
think, is their attention span, but something like podcasting, , you've got
someone for 20 minutes, 40 minutes, an hour listening to things that other
people have to say.

And in this space that I'm trying, like inserting myself in,
in, in the first responder and veteran mental health space, that's a long time.
And for people to get a little bit of hope, , that. Things aren't always going
to be as bad as they are now if they're having a rough time. That's something
that I hoped would, would transfer across to people.

And now, 20 episodes is not a lot, but I'm getting people now
just cold emailing me or, or sending me messages on Instagram saying, , Thank
you so much, because now I can understand better what my partner's going
through, or I had Sarah U'Brien she's a, the wife of a, , ex NSW police and NSW
Fire and Rescue fireman, , and , her husband has PTSD and she came on just to
discuss what living alongside that Looks like for her and her family and her
children and the decisions that she's had to make in the last few years.

And then, , so there's partners now that feel seen for the very
first time. So , I felt like this would be a powerful sort of platform to, to
share stories and that has been the case. So I think for me, that's, that's
what I've gotten out of it. And that's a, Biggest thing that I could ever hope
for.

And to do it in such a short time is, is amazing. And , I
really look forward to what's coming next

Tiff Cook:

and

Rosie Skene:

what
people are going to get out of the future conversations that I can have with
people as well.

Tiff Cook:

I think
it's most podcasts don't reach over three or four episodes. Very few, I can't
remember the percentages now.

So like you're already in the, in the minority. Yeah. For those
who keep going and it, they only, the ones who keep going are the ones who
realize this stuff that we get out of it. That's not the bells and whistles,
you know, like that you just, you keep doing the work and doing the thing. And
there's all of this stuff evolving beneath the service surface.

And I love that.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Tiff Cook:

I love
that.

Rosie Skene:

What
about for you? Like, have you got a favorite episode or something out of the
800? Have you got some that stick out for you? I

Tiff Cook:

mean, I
feel like I've got it. Well, actually there was one that. I had on late last
year, a guy by the name of Stephen Jenkinson, and he is a philosopher and a
theologian from Canada.

And I don't know how I stumbled across him, but he talks about
death and dying. He, he wrote a book called Die Well, I think, Die Well or Die
Wise, one of the two, Die Wise. And. I spoke to him and I had the most deepest,
most philosophical conversation. And I remember thinking, I don't know if I,
like, I couldn't have clung to that conversation years ago.

And I wondered if it was going to land with listeners or if it
was just me in the space I was in. And I listened to it. Probably seven or
eight times since, and I, but I had people reach out and say, I've listened to
that several times. It was just, so that really grabbed me because he, he has
this, he's a real wordsmith.

He has this way with words and it's, it's quite poetic, but he
also just leaves things hanging. Like he'll, he'll say things like pose a
question or talk, death, life, existence, all of this stuff, and then just. And
then it's like, he can move, he just leaves it hanging. And it's, it's kind of
a bit like Buddhism.

It's like, Oh, what, Oh, and then it just hangs in the air
there. And you're like, wow, wow. What just happened? He actually came to
Melbourne three weeks after I'd interviewed him and he was sold out, but he
gave me a ticket to his show. I've never seen anything like it just in Fitzroy.
And it was him and his mate and the mate.

Sung song. So he did this weird spoken word thing, like just
spoken word. So he'd do it, he just, he talked, he would just talk. And then
the, the, his mate would sing this song that was kind of relative and it was
the most powerful thing. I sat there just watching in like my jaw on the floor
going this. What even is, I've never been exposed to something like this.

And he's got quite a cohort of followers here in Australia. But
also most people don't know who he is. They're like, it was amazing. So yeah, I
guess I do have a favourite.

Rosie Skene:

I'll
have to take a listen to that one. I haven't listened to that one yet.

Tiff Cook:

Yeah. Very
cool. Very deep. Very, I'd love to hear what you think after you do.

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

I'll let
you know. Yeah. Tiff I know you've got to run and that's my fault that this is
a little bit shorter than normal. I'm so sorry. Okay. But if you, have you got
a piece of advice for someone that might be listening that might be having a
tough time or a rough day, , something that can help them, , see that there is
a little bit of hope?

Tiff Cook:

Yeah,
look, I think I'm, I'm a real stickler for getting it out, like speaking and,
and all moving towards speaking and, , so whether that be writing or, or
speaking it in private, but I know that 68 episodes in was the first time I
spoke of my trauma in kind of in public, and I'd spent quite a few years having
therapy and in my mind dealing and thinking that I dealt with things at a
certain level.

And when I say in that episode, I literally was asked the
question of what I was kind of maybe referencing, and I said, uh, years of
sexual abuse as a child, and that was that kind of, Oh, have you ever said that
before? And I said, No, not publicly. And this was with Craig Harbour, who I
work with now. And he said, well, we love you and you're doing great.

And we had a, you know, a two minute talk and then we went on
with the podcast. The next day, I remember thinking, Whoa, I didn't realize how
heavy that was. That's just lifted. I feel light, like, and I thought, so
sometimes I think the power of speaking. Or moving towards speaking, even when
we think we don't need to, or we think we've dealt with things.

So yeah, I say do, write, journal, talk, sing, do, do something
that starts to give you the ease to be able to say the words, say words.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Thank you so much, Tiff, for sharing that. That's, yeah, you don't know the
weight of things until you're able to let them go, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tiff, thank you for joining me today.

, it's been great and I hope maybe one day you can come back
and we can have an even longer conversation. Well, sure. You're great. Um, but
I will, , link to your podcast in the show notes because I think people should
really take a listen if they don't already, cause it's amazing. And I really
want to thank you for coming on.

So thank you.

Tiff Cook:

Thank you.

Rosie Skene:

I hope
you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, make sure to hit subscribe so you
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Your support means the world. My name is Rosie Skene, join me
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Trauma. Until then, be kind to your mind and trust in the magic of your
consistent and positive efforts. Triumph Beyond your trauma is closer than you
think. Have the best week.