Rosie Skene:

Hello, and welcome to episode 22 of Triumph Beyond Trauma. Today's conversation is one
that feels like sitting down with a couple of old friends, because that's
exactly what it is. My guest today is Tracy French, a retired sergeant with the
New South Wales police force, who dedicated 18 years of her life to service
across various communities.

Tracy's journey took her from the streets of Rose Bay to Moree,
Waverley, Bondi Beach, Walgett and eventually to , Grafton where her time in
the force came to a close. But Tracy's story doesn't end there. Since leaving
the police, she's put in the hard work and just as importantly embraced self
love to get to where she is today, happy, healthy, and spending quality time
with her son Morgan and her partner, Jeff.

Tracy and I worked together in Walgett and you'll hear about
those days in our chat. I also had the privilege of working with her brother,
Tim in Inverell and yes, he gets a fair mention in today's episode as well. We
both believe in the power of sharing our stories and by doing so, we hope to
encourage others to feel safe enough to do the same, whether it's on a podcast
like this or just a conversation with someone who really cares.

Tracy and I had an absolute blast catching up and I hope you'll
enjoy this episode as much as we enjoyed recording it.

Let's dive in.

Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores
journeys of resilience and hope. I'm Rosie Skene a yoga and breathwork teacher
and founder of Tactical Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mum to
three beautiful kids and a medically retired NSW police officer with PTSD, I
understand the challenges of navigating mental health in the first responder
and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've
confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness
and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together, we'll
uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter future.
Whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or just a friendly
reminder that you're not alone, Triumph Beyond Trauma has got your back.

You matter, and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life
starts right here.

Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma. So good to have you. It's
been, we've been planning for a little while and it's great to have you here.

Tracy, I usually start with how people come to join whatever
service they've joined or the start of their story. So would you like to talk a
little bit about that?

Tracy French:

Yes.
Well, I grew up with policing in my life from day dot pretty much. My dad was a
Detective and I can't remember a family friend. , in our lives that wasn't in
the Police in some form of an, or another. And, , my brother who I know you've
worked with and know he's two years older than me and he always wanted to join
and he did back in 1991.

Um, and well, I'm proud of him cause he's still in the job.
He's still there and he's still, He's sort of out amongst it whenever he can.
He does have a, um, a position now where he's in an office, but he still gets
on that bike and gets in the truck and goes and does stuff. And yeah, he's He's

still got the passion, which is, it's good.

Rosie Skene:

They're lucky to have him. There's not many with that amount of service, with that
passion still, I think, that are in the job.

Tracy French:

Yeah. No, that's so true. Um, yeah. They call them dinosaurs. I know. Sorry, Tim. No,
he's doing these like, yeah, he's been, He's been really good. Um, so I worked,
when I left school for a little while in law firms, I always thought I was
gonna be like a solicitor.

Um, I studied law for a bit and , yeah, one day I just was
there and went, no, you know what? This is so boring, . There's gotta be
something better out there. So I, , applied. And I went and sat tests, climbed
a wall, ran two and a half k's and dragged a very heavy fake dead person
through an obstacle course at the Sydney Police Centre.

And the rest is history. I was first posted to Rose Bay, which,
, It's kind of a bit of a joke, isn't it? Like, it's not very busy, but in its
defence, we did work at Paddington and we bordered King's Cross. It did get
quite busy sometimes. Um, I was there for six years and, but in that time, I, ,
back in the day, they brought out this sort of, um, I don't really, I can't
even remember what they call them.

It was called street safe. And we were We either did high vis
stuff or plain clothes stuff and we just got dropped off at other people's areas
for the day and just, yeah, I loved, I particularly loved Redfern and Kings
Cross. It was really easy to find, find work, um, from going from my lovely
Rose Bay to Kings Cross.

But yeah, no, I really enjoyed that. And then, um, what did we
do then? Well, in. And between all this, I met my ex husband and we decided
that we would go out west because as you know, if you go out to a, you know, a
horrible place, apparently you get to pick a really nice place in the end. And
we always wanted to come back to sort of Coffs area.

We always liked that. So we spent three years in Moree. And we
had my son Morgan out there. Um, but then because of a bit of a family issue,
we, we didn't go to the beautiful place. We went back to Sydney and I was at
Waverly and,, my husband at the time, he was at Bankstown and he joined
Highway. So I was, then I got my sergeant spot and I was lucky enough to get
it, one at Waverley where I was, which was fantastic. So I then ran the
proactive team down at Bondi for three years.

And that. Was my favourite place that I've ever worked. We had
so much fun down there. Um, we were busy 40, 000 people on the beach every day
in summer, and I had a great, like, crew and yeah, we, we did a lot and we
achieved a lot. And that, that to me was what I'd hoped policing was going to
be. And it was, then unfortunately, We were heading back out

Rosie Skene:

west
when you're in Bondi, though, in that proactive unit, what sort of stuff were
you looking for?

Tracy French:

So we pretty much, um, knew all the STMPs and we looked after all that side of
things. So, um, Do you know, you would be surprised, or you probably wouldn't,
at how many people would walk into Bondi station in their swimming costume
alone because everything had been stolen. So we did a lot on the beach.

We walked up and down that beach a lot because 40, 000 people,
you've got, you know, Lebanese people, Chinese people, the whole mix that don't
mix well Yeah. So, surprisingly, that was a very busy, um, place to work and,
yeah, we also did a lot more outside of the beach as well, but, um, yeah, that
was one of my, one of my favourite places. To work

Rosie Skene:

my kids
watch your Bondi Rescue.

Tracy French:

Oh,
yes. I've been on it a million times. Oh, have you? Yes. It was actually really
annoying because they used to follow us and then you had to do everything
properly. Not that we didn't do everything properly, but

Rosie Skene:

really,
really properly.

Yeah.

Tracy French:

Because
you're on the, yeah, the show. Yes. Yes, off we go to Walgett but just prior to
that, and this is where my downfall sort of started to happen was, um, while I
was at Bondi, my workmate, he shot himself one night and we all were there and,
um, unfortunately he had the same name as my son. So apart from it being a
really different job.

And, you know, a very horrible job. Um, I had to still work,
you know, like as a sergeant, you're there at a scene and you have to do what
you have to do and then back at the station. And, um, anyway, we left three
months later to go out to Walgett and that's when I realised that probably
after about six months that I was drinking every night quite a lot.

Well, it wasn't that much. I'm a bit of a lightweight. But I
was drinking so that I couldn't think. Yeah. So that I'd go to sleep. And I
realised that I was doing that. But being out at Walgett, it was really hard.
There's no support sort of services out there, as you would know. There's not
much at all. You were out there as well.

Um, and One night, my two worlds collided when I drove my car
into a B Double whilst going to pick up my son. So, you can imagine, nobody had
any idea, um, that I was in a bad place at all. And then, being a small town, I
think the entire town came to have a look at the accident. And I ended up being
charged.

obviously with drink driving and, um, that's when things sort
of came out. So I booked myself in, I took some annual leave and I booked
myself in and I went to St John of God because I'd heard that they were Um,
specialise in police and PTSD, but unfortunately what I've learned over the
years is that all of those places deal with depression, anxiety, substance
abuse, things like that.

Nobody deals with PTSD. No one touches it. Um, so I,

Rosie Skene:

um,
sorry, I actually remember cause I was, we were there together at Walgett yes.
And we didn't know each other very well, but like you said, I had worked with
Tim and knew that you were siblings. Yes. But I remember that day that you had
that accident, we were having, um, one of the Paramedics that turned up was a
friend of ours and, um, he, he had got the call.

He's like, Oh, I've got to go. There's a job on. I'm like, Oh,
okay. no worries We'll save lunch for you or whatever it was. And he came back
and he's, and I'm like, Oh, is everything okay? He's like, Oh no, but he'd
never told me. Oh, didn't he? No, he never told me. And. Yeah. So, and then
afterwards I found out and I'm like, Oh, like, you know, you feel terrible.

Tracy French:

Oh yeah.
That's right. No. And I mean, I knew him personally as well and yeah, I mean,
being a small town,

Rosie Skene:

it is
just, yeah. And like a small town, there's only 2, 300 people, I think, isn't
that so small?

Tracy French:

And I,
as I say, I think 2, 300 people were standing on the corner looking at me.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
You poor thing. Like, I can't even imagine how that would have been for you.

Yeah. It would The policing community there is so tight because
it has to be like, there's, there's a few people, you know, that hang out with
the community, but not really like they really hang out with each other or
paramedics or fireys, you know, they sort of stick together out there. So
having

Tracy French:

that,

Rosie Skene:

that
would have been hard for you.

Tracy French:

It was
hard. It was humiliating. It was, and then it was the end of my marriage in a
sense. Um, I'd sort of, and you know, It is hard. I can't speak for how anyone
else was feeling at that time, but yeah, I think I just pushed it. That little
bit too. But in saying that, you're not trying to push people away.

You're actually trying so hard to get people to, I don't know,
like listen to you or help you in a sense. But it's, yeah, textbook wise, it's
the

Rosie Skene:

complete
opposite. I think sometimes too, especially in relationships, you're trying to
protect that person that you care for. Yeah. From your shit, really like,
that's what I feel about it myself.

And sometimes I think I can be so horrible and I feel bad for
Rob, but, um, he cops it the most. And I, I think that's so hard for partners
and families to be able to stay together in that sort of environment as well.
So you're definitely not going to be the only one that's had a marriage
breakdown because of that.

And

Tracy French:

I think
that's why over the years, I haven't. Um, I have told my story to people
because I think that it's important that they know that, you know, it seems to
go that way, doesn't it? Especially with police, like the drinking starts and
then the marriage falls apart and then the person falls apart and it goes like
that.

And that's basically what happened with me, but I just kept
going. And, um,, my husband at the time got a transfer to, to Grafton, um, as
the highway sergeant there. So we stayed together, not living together, but
together for our son. So then I was, I was thrown into a town that I did not
know a single person.

Um, I couldn't drive. I had my license taken off me for 18
months. And I tell you what, we did some walking in those 18 months. Oh my
goodness, poor Morgs um, that's when I discovered that Woolworths Home Deliver.
Oh, how good. Oh my God, thank God. Because There's only so much you can carry
home. Can't keep stealing trolleys.

I know, I know, yeah, that's right. I never once took a trolley
home, I promise. Um, yeah, so it didn't, I didn't get better there because I
was even more depressed, I think, living and I was working at Grafton in the
police station and I was still riddled with the guilt and the, you know,
humiliation and not able to drive.

Rosie Skene:

Can even
imagine though, like going from, well, we're just so small, but you know, I
think the cops have what NSW about 18, 000 police or something like that. And
yeah, 20, 000 stuff, but it's a small, yes, it's a small 18, 000 and the news,
Of things that happen like that little, um, rumour mill can just go crazy.

So for you to have to go from Walgett where, you know, people
know you though, like, and would felt, we felt sympathetic towards you, but
then going to a new place where you don't know anyone. And I know what police
are like, they judge you before they've even met you

Tracy French:
And I knew everyone at that station knew the story.

You know, I just thought put your hat back on and, you know, I
was supervising there or doing the, I had to just do things that you couldn't
drive, which was fine. Um, but then I really hoped to get a spot over here
somewhere. And we had a meeting one day with my psychiatrist, the psychologist.
And the boss from Walgett came here for it.

And he said that I'd had enough time off and he was wanting to
get, um, his money's worth out of me. That they were literally his words. And I
was like, so my 18 years Working on the street isn't enough. So I then travelled
from Grafton to Walgett to work, and I did it for six months, get in the car,
drive all the way over there, do my four shifts, get in the car, drive all the
way home.

I remember that. After a night shift to pick up Morgs from
school, um, and then I just, I could not do it anymore. Um, but you know, in
between all of this, I met. a very, very nice man who I've now been with for 10
years. He's a very patient man. I think I'm now starting to realize why he
surfs every Saturday and Sunday.

He needs a break. Um, and Yeah, I, I knew I wasn't going to get
a spot over here. So I had to make a choice. Do I keep doing this ridiculous
driving or, you know, they talked about getting discharged. So that's what I
did. But that wasn't the end of what I did. I then crashed my car into a tree
one day here and again got charged.

Doesn't that sound terrible? I'm driving the most expensive
dualis.

Oh um and we went through that again but this time around Was a
bit different because, um, he said to me, Jeff said to me, you either need to
kill yourself or you need to make a choice. And I know that sounds horrible,
but in the time I was with him in like a couple of years. That's all I seem to
be doing, going around in this cycle, this cycle of one day I'd be good the
next day, terrible.

And so then thank God I went back to the hospital, the private
hospital where they have a mental health unit and they ran a course on PTSD and
it's the first time they've ever done it in Australia. Is that Baringa? Yeah,
at Binduray. They don't run it anymore, which is such a shame. Um, so there was
seven of us.

In this course, it was 10 weeks, two days a week. There was
three of us cops. There was two Vietnam vets. There was a soldier that was in
Afghanistan and a Navy bloke. And it was life changing for me. Um, it just
deals with PTSD. So it actually lets you understand. And it's a lot of. What
you talk about the mindfulness, the breath work, and I'd kind of just borked at
that prior to it, but I was watching these grown men sit there and cry, but
breathe.

And in the 10 weeks, it was just amazing to see the change,
especially with the army people, because army people don't talk about anything.

Rosie Skene:

No, their culture's even worse than the cops.

Tracy French:

Soldier
on.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Just keep going. Yeah. Um, their drinking cultures.
Ridiculous. I can say that because I've seen it, how it is.

Um, and I think that it's not very conducive and they
absolutely needed a Royal commission, um, to happen because they need change.
And I mean, the cops should definitely follow with that too, but yeah. Um,
because it's the first thing we do, isn't it? Like, Hey, let's just go get a
beer. Yes. And let's, yes.

Tracy French:

That's exactly right.

Rosie Skene:

It's, I think hopefully we're getting better now, but I think that's just what back in
the day when we were at Walgett that's what we would do. Like have a few
thousand drinks. Oh, good fun.

Tracy French:

With smoke machines and all sorts of things. Jumping castles. Yes. I know, isn't it
when you think back to that, like, yeah, that is, that's exactly what we did.

And. Yeah. When I watched, especially the Afghanistan bloke, he
was only in his thirties and he was embarrassed to tell his story and his story
was just something that it made us all cry. It made him cry and it was huge.
And he was embarrassed that it was ridiculous that he was feeling like he was.
And then I, yeah, but, um, my mom and dad came up, they had a family day And
this was a really big thing as well that, um, to sit

with the psychiatrist and the psychologist and have them
explain to like our parents and that the process That was going on in our heads
And my dad cried and that was really hard and I realised then that You are
impacting so many people because he said, why can't she just text me back when
I send a message?

And I was thinking that one little thing would have changed his
whole day. Yeah. But it's not until you sort of sit down and you hear people
say things like that.

Um, yeah, so that, that changed my whole life.

Um, yeah, doing that
course did. And then, of course, then I enrolled in university and did some
nursing. Oh my goodness. I did two years and you have a lot of placements. And
in those placements, I realised that it was not for me. Yeah. Because it's very
impersonal. It's very, rushed and I'm such a talker, but it just didn't suit
me.

So that's why I'm doing personal care work now where it's just
one on one and they're your client and that's who you look after. And it's hard
as well because you sort of become part of their family, but, um, I'm enjoying
that. And I take medication to this day. So that I don't drink, and that's
fine, and I will probably take it until the day I die, to be honest, because I
don't trust that if things get hard, that's the first thing you sort of go back
to.

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Because it's easy and it's super accessible.

Tracy French:

Yes.
Like

Rosie Skene:

that's
right. And you know how you feel when you do it. I know. Yeah. Yeah. It fixes
everything. Until it doesn't. Until it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly
right. Yeah. So when you had that second car accident, when you hit a tree, did
you do that on purpose?

Tracy French:

Yes.

Rosie Skene:

But I
just wanted to ask that question because I think, um, that's pretty important
part of your story, right? Like to get to that stage.

Tracy French:

And I think now looking back on that, I mean, that's, that's quite a long time ago.

It is just. All the cry for help, isn't it? It's all you're
doing, you sort of, but yeah, as I say, it's a very expensive cry for help and
it comes with, oh, we were walking again.

Yeah, yeah. Back

on the road. But, you know, and I, I don't laugh at what I did
because I could have killed someone. Yeah. You know, like that.

Other than yourself. Yeah, exactly. That's right. What I did
was, you know, It's like terrible and, you know, I deserve the punishment that
I got for it. And that's fine. But yeah, again, it was, I suppose, yeah, my
story is quite, it's probably five years of me trying to, um, trying to kill
myself slowly, I suppose you say, you know, I don't really know any other words
for it.

But now I look back and I'm so glad that. I got the help when I
needed it because I thought, and I think most people think this way when you're
like that, you feel like you're such a burden that everyone would be better off
without you. But that's not the case at all because I look at my, you know,
Morgan and I think he would not be

Rosie Skene:

better
off.

Imagine. Yeah. Imagine if that happened. Yeah. However many
years ago and to where he is now in his early twenties to not have his mom for
that. I know it was crucial. I think years. Yeah. That's right. As a teenager.
That's

Tracy French:

right.
And he's. He's so well grounded and I mean, we kind of. Did our best to sort of
shelter him a bit from all that was going on. Um, he was with his dad a fair
bit, but he was still with me a fair bit. And as the years have gone on and
he's gotten older and we've talked and you know, he said that every time he saw
me get a wine glass out.

You know, that, that was obviously a trigger for him. He
probably knew what was coming, that mom was going to drink and go to bed. And
like, it was just, yeah. And you don't realise how much it is affecting someone
when you think you are hiding it in a sense. But I said to him a while ago, did
you ever think of joining the police?

And he said to me, um, no, I don't. Want to turn out like you
and dad and I was like, wow,

Rosie Skene:

it
breaks your heart, but, but good also like, yeah, like I

Tracy French:

was
like, no, that's good. Like, yeah. And he's, um, we have the best relationship,

Rosie Skene:

i, um,
just what you said, like when Morgan was saying about you picking up a wine
glass.

So my dad, he didn't mind a drink. I'll say that. That's the
most polite way I can say it. Um, and you know, we grew up in the eighties and
nineties, so, but my sister and I, he used to drink out of cans and that sound
of a can cracking. So I had, and I think I've sort of dealt with it a bit
better now, but even when, uh, like, so my sister's married as well and when
our husbands, that crack noise when they have a can.

Yeah. Instantly activate something within both of us. And we
didn't realize that we both had that until I don't know how the conversation
came about maybe a year or so ago,

Tracy French:

which
is like,

Rosie Skene:

Oh, I
hate that sound. And I'm like, so do I

Tracy French:

straight back straight back there. And

Rosie Skene:

you
know, dad was okay. And I'm, I'm sure he had some anxiety and probably a little
bit of depression as well.

Um, Definitely anxiety. I think that's why he did drink.

Tracy French:

Yes.

Rosie Skene:

But, um,

Tracy French:

yeah,

Rosie Skene:

yeah.
It's incredible. The things that your children pick up.

Tracy French:

Yeah.
Yeah. That's right. I mean, he knew, you know, that we couldn't drive around,
that we would be walking, but you know, he was only young when all that was
going on and I'll give it to him.

He never complained. Yeah. You know, and we bought pushbikes,
Oh my God, I cannot ride a pushbike. We discovered quite quickly we got
entangled at an intersection and Oh my goodness. I was just like, Oh, what am I
doing? But yeah, I mean we still, when you look back at the amount of time I
had off the road, we didn't miss sport.

We didn't miss anything. I think I made sure that we, it was

Rosie Skene:

all
still covered but

Tracy French:

it was
all still covered yeah. And. It's amazing how you can get around when you have
to, without a car.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Tracy French:

So
yeah, so no, he, he is, he's really, he's a really good young kid, and Yeah.
Loves his footy. He's works hard now and that's good and that's all we could
have asked for.

Yeah. Really? So yeah. But yeah, so that's, and then I, that's
kind of like my story. It's so depressing, doesn't it? No, but it's not because
it's not

Rosie Skene:

at all.
And it's so like, thank God that you weren't successful. But when, like after
that happened, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what year would that have been? Like 2000?
It was

Tracy French:

like 13.

Yeah. Yeah. So I suppose 12, 13, 14 were the worst years in
that respect. And

Rosie Skene:

in that
time, like I, you know, had my last shift in 2017 and then was discharged in
2019. Even then the supports weren't very good. Yes. Um, in the Police how did
you come to be like, go to that program? Did anyone suggest that to you or did
you have to actively go and, and ask for that yourself?

Tracy French:

Because I did it
like just took annual leave and went and did it. Um, the other times that I
went, I went to Binduray a couple of times, um, and they were all I, you know,
I had to obviously go and then they would organise whoever it was, your case
person would organise it through them. But the very first time I ever went, um,
after I crashed at Walgett I did that on my own.

Like just took annual leave, went down there and did it. So
yeah. Yeah, um, I don't know. I think too. I didn't want to talk about it or
anyone to know about it So I think and I think that's one of our biggest
downfalls is that you I mean you're struggling But you don't want any, it's
kind of a catch 22 because the help is probably there waiting for you.

But you know, like soldier on, you just think, no, I can sort
this myself. I'll be right.

Rosie Skene:

The thing is too, like you worry about your job, you worry about getting put off
the road, you worry about your gun being locked up and you can't have it
anymore. You know, all of those things are playing on your mind and you're
like, if people know what I'm actually going through, that's not going to be
great for my career.

And even if it, you are not Yeah. Aspirational with your
career, like the money coming in. Oh, that's right. Right, exactly. It, it
affects a whole lot. And

Tracy French:

yeah,

Rosie Skene:

they're
pretty quick to judge the cops like, you know? Yes, yes, yes. So especially
when you're in such a small place. Yes. And even Grafton, like it's not a big
place.

Tracy French:

Oh
yeah. No, that's right. It is tiny as well. Yeah. So there's a

Rosie Skene:

lot
going on. That's not just like, you know, I didn't want to tell anyone because
I was, you know, felt guilty or ashamed or any of that. There's such a big
picture involved with that whole thing.

Tracy French:

And I loved my job. I really did. And I didn't want to not be in it.

I wanted to get better and stay in it, but it's almost like
they made it impossible to do that. Like driving, I did 30, 000 K's in six
months. It's driving out to Walgett to work and then go back. And I don't know
how long you could keep doing that for in a sense. I really, yeah. It's pretty
dangerous. I know.

Rosie Skene:

I know
other people that did that for their whole time. Yeah.

Tracy French:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
That's crazy. Yeah. For them not to have like, and you would go back after a
night shift with very little or no sleep. Like not saying you personally, but
people

Tracy French:

do that. That's what I did. I'd finish at six in the morning. I'd go back to the
house cause I was a sergeant.

And I got a whole house, which I slept on a. Blow up mattress
in a lounge room with my dog. I did take Coco with me and, um, pack up and then
drive straight back home without any sleep. Yeah. So, I mean, it was dangerous.
Yeah. Um, but I had to, because you know, Jared had to work and I had to look
after Morgs and I missed Morgs of course.

So yeah, so we did that. Yeah. And then it, it just became
impossible then. So. Yeah. I thought when they said that they were going to be
medically discharging me, it was a bit of a relief, but yeah, I don't know. I
guess it was, but you do miss it. Yeah. You really do.

Rosie Skene:

And we
were just talking before about missing it.

Like, you're like, Oh, did I make that decision? I know. Was
that a good decision? I sort of missed doing that. But I think, you know, if I
had to go to one domestic, like the first call I'd get on the radio, I'd be
like, no, no, I'm done. Thank you very much.

Tracy French:

And
it's so funny because I have. Um, a new client and, um, I sort of chat to the
husband a lot and most people when they meet me and they ask, what, you know,
what do you do?

And I tell them what I do now. And then I say, like, I spent 18
years in the police and they're like, Oh, were you in the office? And I'm like,
no, they're like, but you're too nice. Like I can't imagine you doing it. And
yeah. I have now started, every time I go there for a shift, I said to him, I'm
going to tell you one funny story every time I come here and you will then
change your mind about how nice I am.

And not that I was mean or horrible to anyone, but dear, I love
to spray people. I've just figured out it was a very. Very helpful tool. And
when I think back to all the people I've sprayed, I have a lot of stories and a
lot of good stories and they're quite funny when you tell people. So yeah, he's
changing his mind quite rapidly now as to how nice I actually am, but as I said
to him, I just treated people the way they treated me.

And that worked well. Um, and yeah, so Tim and I were laughing
the other day at a couple of funny stories because he's gosh, he's got some
funny stories as well.

Rosie Skene:

Did you
guys ever work at the same place at the same

Tracy French:

time?
We've worked at the same place and dad, Tim and I have all worked at the same
place.

At the same time? No. At different times? No, all at different
times. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yes. And, um, it's been good because. Dad's
been fantastic. Like when I went to that job at Bondi that night, I can tell
him everything. I can tell him the details. I can tell him all that without him
freaking out or it's too much because being a detective back in the Roger
Rogers days, he's got some,

Rosie Skene:

he'd have some stories as well.

Tracy French:

Yeah. And, and Tim's the same, you know, every time I was at my
worst and I don't even know how he knew. He would be on my doorstep at some
point. And you know what he's like, he's so quiet. And he would say to me one
day, I have no idea what to say, but I'm here if you need me. And that's all I
needed. And I don't think he's ever realised how much I needed that because
most people, and I shouldn't say most people and you too much, you find out who
your

Rosie Skene:

friends
are

Tracy French:

pretty

Rosie Skene:

quick.

You really do. Yeah. Yeah. And. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Which
is a good thing. You do find that the people that aren't supposed to be in your
life will drift away.

Um, and the ones that are supposed to be there definitely stay.
And you're so lucky to have Tim because yeah, he is a beautiful man. Um, and I,
I didn't get to work maybe a couple of years, I'm not sure how long, but he was
always just so quiet, but very generous with his knowledge. Um, and I can
imagine as a big brother.

Tracy French:

Oh
yeah. Cause I am that. personality wise, we're like chalk and cheese.
Absolutely. Yeah. But he is actually really funny. If you, you get down to it,
he's really funny and yeah. And he was always there when I did need him. And
yeah, there was plenty of times when I did need him and he, he did, he just
show up.

Especially at Grafton. I was like, how did you even know? Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

But
yeah. Yeah. And how did your dad go, um, with your diagnosis? Like how he would
have been in for a little while, I guess, because they seem to stay longer back
in those days as well.

Tracy French:

Yeah.
10 years he was a detective for, um, he did get out because of all the Roger
Rogerson stuff.

Um, But he's, um, he's been good. And as I said before, about
the texting, I think he was always scared that he was going to get a call.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Tracy French:

Um, and
I didn't realise that until he said that in that course and I was like, Oh,
just text back. So I, I've really changed a lot of the things that I used to
do, like I still isolate quite a lot, but I like my bubble.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with that this day and
age. Um, and Jeff and I, well, we've been to Bali the last three years, so
we're getting out there. We're just slowly sort of, um, Getting out of our
comfort zones. I suppose.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
And I think that shows like a lot of growth. I'm the same I, I think I've
realised in the last couple of years, especially that I've, they're like little
batteries.

I feel like I've got my energy batteries.

Tracy French:

Yes.

Rosie Skene:

So I
will go, we'll get together with our friends. I'll have a really great time,
like an afternoon into a night. Um, and then we'll be home. My husband will be
like, wow, look, you know, look at you and I'm like, oh yeah, that's going to
be me for about six weeks.

Like I'm, I don't need to see anyone now for a while and I just
want to be quiet again. And then in a few weeks time or a month or two, it'll
be

Tracy French:

hi.
It's funny that you say that because I will avoid things like the plague, you
know, like There'll be a barbecue coming up. And I'm like, no, all right. Yes.

We're going to go. No, we're not going. Yes. We're going. Jeff
just does. He just waits until you get the car keys. And then I go and then
I'll get home and I'll be like, that was actually really good. Yeah. But yeah,
there is that you just have that internal battle beforehand, but I had this
fantastic friend.

Here in Coffs now. And she knows. Yeah. She, and I think once
people get to know you, be like, don't be offended. I won't be at your place
for coffee every week. Yeah. You know, like, it's just not gonna happen. But

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. If
you can't, yeah. I am gonna make plans with you, but probably cancel .

Tracy French:

Yeah.
And then, and then, but we

Rosie Skene:

get
together eventually.

Tracy French:

Yeah,
that's exactly right. And there was a funny meme on Instagram and it's like,
yes, I, I do wanna be invited to everything, but no, I'm not coming. I'll never
be there. Yeah. That's right. So I think there, that's it. But yeah, it is
funny. I know.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
It's, um, it's a journey. I know. So you're saying that you are doing personal
care and that's what you're doing for work, but what are you doing, what gets
you excited these days?

Tracy French:

Gosh,
well, every year we plan to go to Bali. Yeah. And it's nice to, I mean, we've
got to go somewhere else. Eventually we can't keep going back to the same
country, but it's

Rosie Skene:

familiar, right?

Tracy French:

Like,
you know, yeah. And Jeff's a really big surfer, so it suits us perfectly. He
can go off surfing. The massage is so cheap. The shopping. I love that side of
things. And I just like even getting room service and sitting in a room looking
over the ocean and like that is perfect. So we seem to have found that really
good spot where it suits both of us.

But, um, I don't know. We like the simple things, you know,
like we'll watch a series together and I do a lot of afternoon shifts. So there
is a lot of, you know, time where. I suppose he gets a break, he gets a bit of
a break and Morg's plays footy now, so every Saturday it's like we go wherever
he's playing, we'll sit there in the rain and watch him and you know, that's,
that's good, he's, you know, he likes that, um, but I am doing a counselling
course, I forgot about that.

Um, because like what you're doing, I think is absolutely
fantastic. And what I wanted to do originally when I started doing the nursing
was to try and do something where I can help people that, uh, you know, we're
going through what I've gone through and actually understand from both sides,
you know, like, um, I can actually say, I know how you felt or, yeah,
absolutely understand why you're doing this.

Did that.

Rosie Skene:

I think
they make the best counsellors is someone that actually gets it. My, I talk
about my psych all the time because I just love her so much, but she, you know,
she can tell me she did so much work with defence and defence boys and she's,
um, done her own things overseas in, in pretty horrendous conditions

Tracy French:

and

Rosie Skene:

she's
got PTSD.

Tracy French:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

And so
her just saying that to me in our first couple of appointments, I was like,
okay, like you get it. Yes. You know, you know all the things that I'm going
through and it just makes you feel so It's so much more, I think, relaxed. Um,
and, and you're not

Tracy French:

somebody understands and you're not the only one.

I know. I know because it's, you know, when you think about we
have 50, 000 thoughts a day and thoughts aren't facts. Yes. Like we're, it's
exhausting battling all those thoughts in your head that. aren't or may not be
and what people think of you and what people are saying about you and it is,
it's exhausting.

So you've got to really get your head around. I don't know.
That's why I think I'm happy to share my story. And I, you know, like, as I
say, I'm doing the counselling because I want to do things like you're doing,
like try to reach out and you've been in their shoes. And as you say, you know,
you know, the, the isolating, well, you know, I've done it very well with you
now, since I was supposed to be the first podcast, we got Maggie, which is
very, very good.

Mags we've been through some stuff, I tell you. I can imagine.
But yes, I was supposed to be the first one. How many have you done in between?
You're going to be number 22. There you go. So I've avoided you for 22
podcasts. I know, but I get it too. And it's so fine yeah, I know. I know. And
it's funny, but yeah, we do get it.

And that's, that's important. And I think that's the important
thing when people go to a job that is terrible, and then they bring somebody in
from You know, an office job, nobody wants to talk

Rosie Skene:

to them
because they don't understand like the police medical offices and the
psychologists that they have that, you know, they don't, they don't get it.

And I think that's the biggest barrier for police because
that's why they keep in such tight knit groups, especially, um, they like to
just hang out with each other because they know that everyone else. in that
area knows what they're going through or knows where they've been to or knows
their experience.

And I think to have people in areas like counselling or mental
wellness or mental health or any of those things where they're already going to
have such a big wall up that you can just sort of knock a couple of bricks down
immediately.

Tracy French:

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's so true. And that's why I say, I, you know, I
suppose, Um, if I look back and you know, you knowing the sort of person that I
am, I don't feel embarrassed or humiliated about telling my story anymore
because I hope like what you're doing that even if it helps one person know
that you can be at rock bottom, but you can come back.

You can, it's not easy. Oh my God. And that's a lot of
medication

Rosie Skene:

involved. It's not easy, um, but you have to do the work. And I was talking to
a friend this week, um, and you know, they're having a tough time. Like, I get
a lot of people calling me now because they, you know, they're having a rough
time. And I'm like, yep, I can share things for you to do, yes,

Tracy French:

yes,

Rosie Skene:

but you
have to do it.

And that is the hardest thing.

Tracy French:

Yes.
It's odd. Yeah, totally. I mean, we live in the most beautiful area and I
don't. go to the beach. I don't do anything like that. And we did the other day
because we had friends come up from Victoria and I'm like, Oh my God, it's so
beautiful. What am I doing? Especially where you are.

It is so beautiful. I can hear the ocean at home and yeah, but
it's just, it's just breaking that, um, uncomfortable feeling and Doing it just
giving it a go. Yeah. And that's sort of, yeah, today I did the overnight last
night with my beautiful old lady and I was like, no, I need to do this today
because it's just been sitting there and I know I've been avoiding it and I
don't know why I've been avoiding it.

Yeah, it's hard. It doesn't matter.

Rosie Skene:

I think
it's hard though. Like it's your story and it's, it's been a journey , and it's
so hard to , I know even when I, I was by myself when I recorded my own story,
you know, and I spoke about it again on another podcast recently. And it's
emotional. It's your.

Yeah. Your darkest times of your whole life, the worst, but I
think, you know, like you just said, you're like me, you just want to share

what you went through because there is growth after that. There
is light after that. And when you put in the work. It's not the end of your
story. No,

Tracy French:

that's
exactly right.

It's a chapter in it. And it's a very interesting chapter in
it. I know I've often thought that, but yeah, I'm too lazy to do it
unmotivated. I know. Um, yeah, it is. But no, I think to, you know, you look at
the, I suppose I still get little bits of the policing world. Through my
brother and it's really no different, you know, I mean, he doesn't say anything
much, but I don't think there's been much change, which is sad. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

And they
just, I think, yeah, we just,

Tracy French:

yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. But then in saying that. From what I said before, you've got to put
your hand up.

Rosie Skene:

Unfortunately, you do. People can't read your mind. Um, but also I, I'm not
sure.

I don't like talking poorly about the organization, but I'm not
sure that there's people in the right spots that will help you anyway, as well.
Like you have to know who you can talk to and who's not going to maybe stab you
in the back because of it.

And I think that is a very real, Fear that people have,

what would you say to
yourself now? Like you now where you're at back to you know, Tracy that was at
rock bottom.

Tracy French:

Oh geez
Strapping for the ride. I don't know because I don't think back then I Ever
thought I would get out of it to be honest.

Yeah, but yeah, but it's nice because Yeah, life is really
good. And there's plenty of good stuff to be done It really is and as I said
before there are bad days still and there are good days, but that there's an
awareness now and You have to feel the feelings and as bad as that is You It's
actually quite liberating and you sort of feel a bit proud of yourself.

Like, you know, we were saying just before, when you do go
somewhere that you were petrified of going, and then you're like, Oh my God, I
can do that. And it was actually fun. You're allowed to have some fun.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
It's, um, I like that you're going to feel the feelings because we are very
good at not.

Oh, we don't want to feel the feelings.

Tracy French:

No, nobody does. But unfortunately you do. And they're not as bad, I think, as you
think they are going to be.

Rosie Skene:

Yes.
Something that I was reminded of just before is your tattoo that you've got on
your arm. And I went, I remember seeing it for the first time when we were at
Walgett Yeah. And I thought that's so sweet.

A weird thing to have tattooed on your arm because like
everyone just does that, but it says breathe. Oh yes. And that one. And I was
like, that's different. And I was like, I wonder why that's there. And now
being through all the things that I've been through, it's just something. Can
you tell me how that came about?

Cause I know how it would come about for me.

Tracy French:

I think
it was very much part of all the mindfulness that I was going through. And I
think, and I say it to people now and I still do it now, like with some of my
clients and I will say deep breath in, like let it out three seconds, hold it,
let it out. And it actually physiologically brings your heart rate down and
I've watched it on a monitor and it does work. And I think that for me, I have
to do that quite a bit. I know my dad does it now after coming to the family
day and he was like really surprised at how it does actually work on your body.
And I have, I've literally had a blood pressure cuff on someone and watched the
numbers go down as they've.

Um, you know, just breathed slower and deeper and concentrated
on it. Yeah. So I was thinking, what a load of crap. It's not going to work.
And it does. It really does. I've actually,

Rosie Skene:

I've got no tattoos and I've actually, and I, people have asked me like, Oh, if you got
one, what would you get? And I'm like, I think of that all the time and I think
of it like, and cause yours is like quite close to your wrist.

Yes. And I'm like, that's actually really good because you do
forget even me and I teach it. Yes. I forget. I'm like, Oh, maybe I should take
a breath here.

Tracy French:

Take a
breath. Yeah. That's right.

Rosie Skene:

I think
that's so beautiful.

Tracy French:

And
cause I talk so much as well sometimes.

Rosie Skene:

Is it
like a pause button? Jeff will go.

Tracy French:

Just
take a breath, breathe.

And I'm like, yep. Okay. I don't have to get it all out in one
go. Yeah. But plenty of time. All right. I know. Funny. Yes. So yeah, that's
right.

Rosie Skene:

I'm
going to ask you two more questions. And one of them is what advice do you have
for people that might be hesitant to seek help for their mental health issues?

Tracy French:

Seek it. Yeah. And And you don't have to, you, you might not like the person that
you're getting it from to start with, then go to someone else, go and find that
person that you feel comfortable talking to. And I think one of the things that
I learned very early on as well is be honest with the person because we do tend
to hide things a lot.

And I did for a while. And then I was like, I'm not getting the
help that I actually, I'm just coming here and telling a story and then going
home, but I'm missing the important bits. So you know, if you get the
opportunity, definitely get some help. And I went through a few people before I
found the person that I really liked and I felt comfortable talking to, um, so
it's not going to work maybe straight away, but keep trying because that's all
you can do really is keep one foot in front of the other and keep trying.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Tracy French:

And
hopefully you'll find that really good person and yeah, get the help that you
need. She made me look at things differently. She made me things that I would
say to her. She'd say, well, how do you know that? Like, well, I don't know
that. She's like, well, then. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, that's so true.

Rosie Skene:

Yes.

It's funny. I had, , a guy Mark on and he was saying, you know,
you're not your thoughts. Yes. They're separate from you. And it's so important
to have, take that step back and go, hang on. Yeah. Is that true?

Tracy French:

And cause we're all so obsessed with that person knows or they're looking at me or
they're talking about me.

We can't control what people say about you. And you know what?
Yeah. Yep. Who cares? Like at the end of the day, when you go to bed every
night, who cares that so and so is talking about what I did five years ago? You
know, like, It's what is it? They say it's like, it's actually none of your
business. What other people think?

And you know what? We have enough thoughts that we're dealing
with in our heads. So who cares what people think about you at the end of the
day? I mean, I know we all do, we do, but I think I've gotten better with. It
doesn't matter what people say, if they've got nothing better to talk about. I
say

Rosie Skene:

that to
Rob all the time.

Um, he, I don't know. I can't remember. It's not even talking
about like, if they've got nothing better to do, then think about what I'm
doing, then I feel sorry for them.

Tracy French:

That's
exactly right. Isn't it? That's it. If they're sitting there talking about me,
geez. Yeah. You might have to watch another series or something.

I don't know. Pick a better show.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,

Tracy French:

absolutely. Yes.

Rosie Skene:

Um, and
my last question, and it's usually my last question with everyone is, um, what
message would you like to share with first responders, veterans, frontline
workers? Cause they're usually the people that listen, but anyone really, are
having a tough time and just sort of can't see through that fog.

Yeah. I suppose

Tracy French:

you're
not the only one. Um, and I think you wouldn't be human if you weren't having a
bit of a tough time, especially if you're a cop or an ambo or in the army or
anything like the fireys. It's not normal to do that. that sort of work. It's
not normal to see that much heartache, that much, you know, horrible stuff
going on in society.

So, um, I take my hat off to anyone that can do it. And I think
that you're a certain person to have chosen to do that in the first place. And
you know that when you go in and I loved being a part of that. Um, that wasn't
really my downfall, so to speak, but definitely look after yourself and you
need that.

You need someone to talk to. You need someone to air it with.
You can't bottle that up. You can't. It's not healthy. And yeah, so just maybe
if you can find, and you know, even if it is just a Facebook group, that's
perfect because you can be anonymous, but yeah, make sure you get it out if you
can.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Tracy French:

Cause
it's not healthy being

Rosie Skene:

in
there.

It's not. And it's the longer you're in there. I think the
harder it is to get out, right. Get

Tracy French:

it out.
Yeah, that's right. And you know, the whole thing about PTSD that I learned was
it's all exposure. So it's all about. You store, you store all that horrible
stuff in a part of your brain that can't get accessed.

So every time you triggered the, it's the feelings, it's not
the actual job. It's the way you felt at the time. Um, and you need to bring
them to your frontal lobe. It's getting like really technical, isn't it? So
that you can deal with it. And that's talking about it. That's how you do that.
Yeah. And I think over the years, that's, and that's why I.

like to share my story because I didn't know that until I was
taught that. And it was amazing to watch that happen when I did that PTSD
course with

Rosie Skene:

other
people.

Tracy French:

Yeah.
Watching someone that had been at, you know, in Vietnam or, or one of those
really early wars that had kept that bottled up for 46 years and then finally
got it out.

And then it made sense. Um, but that's in, I mean, it's both in
a perfect world. It's, it is sort of hit and miss, but the help is out there.
And even if it is a Facebook page, get on it. Yeah. Yeah. Thank

Rosie Skene:

you so
much for coming on, Tracy. That's okay. Finally. What number am I? 22. It's
been so good to talk to you and I know that I, like, I am so grateful for you
sharing your story.

Um, and I know that other people will be too. Yeah. And we'll
say hi to Tim.

Tracy French:

I will.
Shout out to Tim. be listening. He keeps asking me. He doesn't have Spotify. He
has to take it off Chloe. I know. Bye. No. I think.

Rosie Skene:

But
thank you.

Tracy French:

No. And
thank you. I think what you're doing is, um, is amazing and keep doing it
because I know that there's been times that you felt like, am I wasting my
time?

But you're not. Thank you.

Rosie Skene:

I have definitely I know it does, uh, sometimes it does feel like that, but I, yeah,
I'm feeling a little bit of traction now and I know that people are getting
something out of it and that's what does it for me. So that's good.

Tracy French:

Even if
you help one person, it's just

Rosie Skene:

that one
person, it is

Tracy French:

so
true.

And then that one person can help and it's just, yeah, yeah.

Rosie Skene:

And on
that, if you are listening and you want to help one other person, then share it
with someone else. And that's how we help other people. Totally. Yes. Thank
you.

I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, make sure
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Your support means the world. My name is Rosie Skeen, join me
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Trauma. Until then, be kind to your mind and trust in the magic of your
consistent and positive efforts. Triumph Beyond your trauma is closer than you
think. Have the best week.