Rosie Skene:

Hello, hello, and welcome to episode 24 of Triumph Beyond Trauma. Today, I have Roger
Eichler. Born in the 1960s, German immigrant parents, Roger had instilled him
the virtues of a strong work ethic and doing what's right for family,
community, work, and career. He joined the New South Wales Police Force and
began a career in an organisation that felt normal, as it fit well with the
values he was raised with.

Rules, regulations, punctuality, and being strong minded and
focused. He was on a path to advance his career and protect the community he
served. However, one night in August 2006, that all came crashing down through
an incident that eventually culminated in Roger losing his identity, career,
and almost his life.

It was the unconditional love of family and friends who
supported him through some significant struggles with mental health that has
enabled him to turn his experience into purpose and become an advocate to
assist other veteran members of emergency services with their mental health
while championing the cause to help those who have served.

Roger and his wife Libby now live in rural New South Wales with
three loving children who have established their own successful adult lives in
Australia and the United Kingdom.

Roger's book is called The Price of Protecting Others, a memoir
of a country cop and the impact on himself and his family.

It is a beautiful book and one that I recommend for sure. I'm
going to add a content warning for this episode. We do have discussions about
jobs involving deceased people and also about Roger's suicidal ideation. So
please be mindful about your own capacity to listen to this episode today. It
was such a joy to speak with Roger and I cannot wait for you to listen.

So let's get stuck in.

Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores
journeys of resilience and hope. I'm Rosie Skeen, a yoga and breathwork teacher
and founder of Tactical Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mum to
three beautiful kids and a medically retired NSW police officer with PTSD, I
understand the challenges of navigating mental health in the first responder
and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've
confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness
and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together, we'll
uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter future.
Whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or just a friendly
reminder that you're not alone, Triumph Beyond Trauma has got your back.

You matter, and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life
starts right here.

, welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you on cause I loved
reading your book. It was amazing.

Roger Eichler:

Thank
you.

Thank you. I poured my heart and soul into it. Yeah, you can

Rosie Skene:

tell.
And I, I really loved it. I think because I was a country cop too. So I really
resonate with a lot of it and, , being a lockup keeper as well.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

There's
just so much in there.

Roger Eichler:

There
is. There is. And people don't realize that. How about you get called out at
two in the morning and see if someone's dead on the side of the road and all of
that.

Yeah.

Everything else. You know, it's just, it's bizarre. I loved the
job, but my God, it takes its toll. It takes its toll. It'll be with you until
you die. Die basically. Yeah. I

Rosie Skene:

think
so. Yeah. I, I think I had that realization probably a couple of years ago
actually when a psychiatrist just pointed out to me, he's like, you know, are
you thinking that you're just going to wake up one day and it's all going to be
gone?

Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

I do
hope. Yeah. But it's never going to happen.

Rosie Skene:

That's
not happening to you, Rosie. You need to learn to live with it. Okay. All
right. I can do that.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, it's an amazing job. It's an amazing job, but And
full of amazing people, but yeah, it, it, it hurts everybody in some way.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. I agree.

I always start with how
people have come to join the job. And you're New South Wales police. So I would
love for you to tell us how that all came about for you and a bit about your
service and where you went and just to give everyone a bit of an idea.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Okay. Well, I, I left school in 1984 and I had no idea what I wanted to do for
a job. , university was not never mentioned because. That's just for smart
people. , so I asked dad what to do and he says, go and get a job. So I went
and just got a job of whatever, rather, and then a mate of mine back in the
day, back in the eighties, , a mate of mine, he said, , I want to join the
cops.

So we went to Campbelltown police station and back in the day,
they would have, uh, application forms on the counter at the police station. So
him and I filled it out. Oh, yeah, I'll give it a go, whatever. And I bombed
out in high school, really bombed out. I was just there for the fun and the
mates and everything.

Um, and lo and behold, I got into the police, but he didn't
cause he was too short.

So back

in those days, if you were less than five foot nine, you
couldn't get in.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. I
would, I'm short.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Yeah. So, so I got in. And it took about 12 months to process because I lived
in a really remote environment. So I didn't have life experience.

And when I went for the initial interview, the sergeant said,
Oh, look, yeah, go and get a job and do whatever and experience life a bit
more. And in 12 months time, just come and join us. So that's what happened.
Yeah. So I did a few different jobs in between and, um, yeah, joined in, uh,
September, 1986.

Yeah.

Yeah. Class 223.

Rosie Skene:

You
never forget the numbers. Do you? No,

Roger Eichler:

no,
no, no, no. No. We had a class of 206 initially, and I think 198 of us
graduated. Yeah. That's

Rosie Skene:

actually
probably not too bad.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Yeah. And as long as back in those days, as long as you had a 40 percent mark
in English and maths at school, that's all they wanted.

People that could read and write and do maths. That's all they
wanted. And that you were taller than five foot nine as a man. And I think five
foot six as a woman, whatever that is in centimetres. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And for
the next 12 weeks, we got absolutely slammed or everything. bullied, harassed,
intimidated, um, all the bad school stuff, but fit really, really, really fit.

Yeah. They worked heavily on your fitness back then. Yeah. 160
push ups a day. It wasn't out of the question and stuff like that. And running
five Ks, 10 Ks a day. We were so fit. Yeah. Where were you?

Rosie Skene:

You
weren't, it wasn't in Goulburn back then, was it? Yeah, it was

Roger Eichler:

Goulburn, yeah. Oh,

Rosie Skene:

it was
Goulburn. Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah,
yeah, yeah.

So Goulburn and, um, the day before we marched out, which was
the day we marched out on the 19th of December, 1986, and the day before it
snowed, and then the day we marched out it was 35 degrees . Oh

Rosie Skene:

yeah. Is
Goulburn for sure. That's Oh my gosh.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
I've, I've got it. Small fondness for Goulburn, which is why I live in
Canberra.

Yeah. So, uh, yeah. Yeah. And then my very first station was at
Narooma on the South coast. Yeah. They had a big push for country stations back
then. And, uh, yeah, I, I put my hand up for places where I could get a bed,
you know, basically where I had family, but mom and dad were building a
retirement house down there.

Rosie Skene:

Oh,
that's convenient. Yeah. Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

So
yeah, we moved into mom and dad's retirement house. And for the next three
years, I was at Narooma. And after eight months I was working the streets on my
own on night shift. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. So
it was a small station ?

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Yeah. There was seven of us. So I was the seventh officer and, um, yeah.

And basically after eight months, I, because of court
commitments and leave commitments and light sort of stuff, I was working the
truck by myself after eight months in the job. Yeah. Doing whatever came in,
domestics, deceaseds, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Learned by the seat pants.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Yeah. They're going to sink or swim.

I really,

Roger Eichler:

absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And back then there was no mobile phones or
anything around like that. So if you're on the side of the highway, you know,
12 at night or whatever, you've got the radio and that is it. And hopefully the
radio worked. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Looking
back at that now, how do you feel about that?

Roger Eichler:

Yeah,
it was pretty frightening.

Rosie Skene:

Seems
crazy, doesn't it?

Roger Eichler:

Oh,
absolutely crazy. You're carrying a gun. You're eight months in the job. Eight
months ago, you were working behind a bar. Now you've got a gun on the side of
the road, dealing with truck accidents or whatever it was trying to figure
stuff out. Yeah.

Yeah. Really frightening. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Wow.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

So you
did go out West. Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

In, you know, later on in my career, I went out West. I went out to a little place
called Pilliga, which is in the far Northwest of New South Wales, up near
Moree, so to speak, and then went to Dubbo and then into the far Southwest
corner of New South Wales, a town called Euston which is down sort of near the
corner of South Australia, New South Wales, Victoria.

Yeah, I know.

Rosie Skene:

I know
Euston when we moved from New South Wales to Adelaide and I passed through
there

on the way. Yeah, it was nice to see that in your book because
I actually Google mapped it because I'm like, Oh, that name is so familiar. I
have to have a look and I'm like, Oh, yeah, I've been there.

Roger Eichler:

A hell
of a lot of people would have gone there if they live in Sydney and head to
Adelaide by car.

It's, it's literally 10 hours West of Sydney.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's a little two man station on the Sturt highway,
but my God, it's a busy station. It's so, so busy. Cause you got the Sturt
highway directly out of the road. You've got a town called Robin Vale over the
river, I should say, cause you're on the Murray river.

Um, and the, all the population of Robin Vale comes through
Euston to go to Mildura, which is the biggest city near you. So Yeah. Traffic
flows through their truck accidents and everything was, that was just
frighteningly busy. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

And they
only had two people is so it was a two

Roger Eichler:

man
station cause of population of 500.

So they, so they, they work on statistics of 500 people roughly
per officer, so to speak, but it was hard to fill the other station because
people from Sydney won't go there. It's too far from home.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
And you were there a lot by yourself as well. Yeah. In three and a half

Roger Eichler:

years,
I was by myself for two years.

Yeah. And just got absolutely hammered. Absolutely hammered.
Yeah. Yeah. The workload was enormous. And Sturt Highway is the major drug
route for all the druggies down in South Australia, where they grow cannabis
legally. Um, and they would ship it up to Sydney and you'd pull over cars with
kilos of cannabis in it, or the cash from the proceeds of selling the drugs.

Yeah. I pulled 380, 000 out of one car in cash, all up and I
took about half a million dollars in cash off the highway. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

I
remember reading about that and it was, uh, a friend lent them the money or
something, didn't they?

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. To build a house. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

It's
all legit. Yeah. My friend, can you give me money to build my house?

Yeah. Yeah. Righto mate. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah. And, , and,
and then you pull out the cars, as you know, like you just go, yeah, I'm not
going there. And you know, it's full of baddies and guns and whatever. And if
you buy yourself, look, I'm just going to let that one go. Yeah. Many a time I
pulled out of a car and I thought I am going to die.

If I do anything here, I'm just going to let him go.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Thank you very much. Have a good night.

Roger Eichler:

Exactly. Yeah. Cause at that same time, remember the, um, backpack murder up in
Northern territory, the, , the combi van where the. Yeah. Oh, what was his
name? And at that same time, we had the, there was a national people lookout
for this car.

And we had to look out for a Toyota Land Cruiser utility and
out in the country, there's thousands of them.

There are, yeah.

And he, he was a known killer and he had murdered, , Paul,
what's his name? Yeah. And I'm on the side of the highway going, I'm not
pulling that car over. No, I'm not going to get shot for anything.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

Rosie Skene:

something, especially when you work, , by yourself a lot and in those remote
communities, . Everyone has a firearm out there.

Roger Eichler:

Absolutely. Yeah. They all carry a man. They're off to shoot a, uh, an injured
cow or whatever it might've been, or the kangaroo shooters and everything. And,
um, yeah.

And, and, and as you read in my book, one of the scariest
moments was, you know, I dealt with a matter where he was a professional
kangaroo shooter and he can kill a Roo at 400 meters. And. I'm literally
walking into his, you know, aim of fire. Yeah, literally. And I was waiting for
my head to explode.

Literally. Yeah. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

I had
not a similar job, but I had also a job where the thing is out there in the
West and farming communities, rural communities, they're so well trained in
using, you know, their firearms.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
And

Rosie Skene:

all you
have is a little weenie pistol, like it's, you're not much of a chop

Roger Eichler:

and

Rosie Skene:

it's not
unheard of.

And unfortunately we have lost police to ambushes with firearms
in the bush.

Roger Eichler

Yeah.
Yeah. Um,

Rosie Skene:

and one
of the, you know, one of my jobs that tipped me over the edge was heading to a
domestic, um, to lock someone up knowing that they had rifles and they were,
you know, well equipped to use them as well. Yeah.

It's a scary, scary thing.

Roger Eichler:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And those two poor officers up in Queensland and
that where they got shot out, it was inevitable that something like that was
going to happen. It was inevitable. And it's really sad, really, really, really
sad that our brothers and sisters in arms have gone because of that.

But um, It was inevitable.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
But even like, even at New South Wales, I think it was just near Moree, , a
similar thing happened as well. That's

Roger Eichler:

right.
, Oh, he worked for national, not national parks, something like an
environmental protection agency or something or other.

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

So it's,
it's definitely something that you need to be mindful of. And I don't know if a
lot of people, especially if they live in the city are aware of those dangers
that police face. ,in the bush, because I think, I think I'm pretty sure people
think it's a sleepy little job out in the bush,

but it's far

from that.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah,
exactly. They, they, they think it's just a very quiet and you do nothing. You
eat donuts all day and all that sort of stuff. And one thing that really irks
me is when you see stuff on social media or people being interviewed and they
go, Oh yeah, but they're paid to do that job. They should know better.

You know, when normal human beings, all we do is carry a gun
and wear a blue uniform, right? And we are human beings, you don't go through
the Academy and they change your brain to cope with these sort of things. They
don't do anything about that sort of stuff. And when I worked at the Academy,
not that long ago, I tried talking about mental health and I was terminated
because I was talking about mental health.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, I,
when I read that in your book, I actually thought, Hmm, I can see, I can see
that happening because I guess I've had conversations a lot with people,
obviously with the podcast, but something that I don't know how they can change
it without talking about it. Because. Talking about it, then it admits that
there's an issue, um, that they need to address.

And I'm not sure that they're prepared to do that. Um, no,

Roger Eichler:

no.
And if they admit that there's a problem, they have to deal with it and to deal
with it, it costs money and they don't have the money to deal with it. So let's
just keep it under the blankets or whatever the saying is, you know, just

Rosie Skene:

not
acknowledge it at all.

And it's so, uh, when I I've had friends join and I've said to
them, you know, Yep, go and join the police. You know, it's a really great job,
but you know what you need to do? You need to get yourself some help right from
the start, because that's something that I really wish I had done from the
start, is kept a track of it.

Maybe see a psychologist once a year. Or use your EAP
appointments that you have available to you to keep on track of it yourself
because no one else does that for you.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah,
I, um, when I was teaching at the academy as a lecturer, I walked in to do a
lesson on juvenile crime. And as you've read in my book, you know, two
incidents that nearly took my life was dealing with juveniles and I literally
just turned around, turned the screen on and started to cry in front of the
class and the whole class just sat there in silence.

And I said, guys, you've got no idea what happens out there.
And two of the biggest incidents that nearly took my life. Tip me over the
edge, which caused massive PTSD for me was dealing with juveniles. And I told
him the whole story and told him about coping mechanisms, what to do. If you go
to a bad job, talk to your minister, talk to a mate, talk to your partner,
whatever, but deal with it today.

And one of the students was a mental health worker by trade.
And after the class, they all came up to me and shook my hand and thanked me
for being so open and honest about it and telling them. My experiences and
hoping that they didn't go through those experiences. So they were really
pleasantly, you know, they appreciated my total honesty with them.

And then I was sacked because I was talking about mental
health.

Rosie Skene:

I was
going to say, and then it didn't end real well, did it?

Roger Eichler:

But
they really, really appreciated it.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,

Roger Eichler:

they
really appreciated it like being hugged and my hands shaken by the students was
just so great that they were being told it's going to affect you, but you got
to have some mechanisms in place to deal with what's going to affect you as
well.

And don't go down the path like I did and enjoy a bottle every
day.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
And that's something I want to talk to you about because I know that. A lot of
police , that's what we do, isn't it? We start drinking because it's one of the
things, one that's legal and accessible. Um, and it's our

Roger Eichler

culture

Rosie Skene:

and it's
part of the culture and it's so dangerous because, you know, one or two drinks
can, you know, move into a bottle or a carton or whatever it is.

Roger Eichler

Mm. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

How did
you get yourself out of doing that?

Roger Eichler:

Well,
I left the police in 2008. I didn't voluntarily leave. I was basically
terminated by my boss because he didn't talk about emotions or anything. He
just said, yeah, you admitted in court that you've, your career's over, so I'm
ending your career for you.

Thank you very much. So, um, I, I left in 2008 and when I left
back then, they basic, when you left the police on a pension or whatever,
rather it is, they told you nothing. We had no information. We had to deal with
our stuff ourselves. They gave us no direction in how to deal with anything.
Like go and see a psychologist, go and see a psychiatrist, whatever rather.

Fortunately, I was open to other things other than the bottle.
And I was into doing a little bit of yoga and all that sort of stuff, but
especially exercise, but also my wife, the total advocate for my health at the
You know, since whenever, , she said, we got to sort this crap out basically.
And we ran away, we moved and we bought toys.

We did all those sorts of things that gave you warm and fuzzy
feelings, but it didn't fix the problem. So I went down the path of seeing a
myriad of different psychologists. And don't just go to see one and believe
that that one psychologist is going to fix you because you've got to find the
one that works for you.

And it took me a good 15 years to find the right one. A whole
heap of others did their bit. But after about 12, 18 months, you know, I just
wasn't getting any traction. So I moved on to another psychologist and another
psychologist. And you've got to find one that fits you, but also understands
your career.

Yeah.

And understands what you're dealing with. And then also having
the support of my wife and my kids and everybody else around me was another
coping mechanism. But the biggest thing that changed my life was eventually I
read a book, um, by a veteran from Vietnam and he spoke about an organization
called Trojans Trek and Trojans Trek is a Amazing organization, which is
totally volunteer run by veterans of emergency and military services.

And we take people away out into the bush and we just talk
about stuff, coping mechanisms, how to improve yourself, how to change your
thinking, why you're always angry. We do all these touchy feely things and
there's no booze, there's no mobile phones, there's no media, there's no
nothing. And for a week, we just, Openly talk and build relationships and, and
able to express our feelings in front of everybody.

And because we're together and we understand the careers,
because we've been there, done that we're able to express things without having
to say it as well. Because you and I can have a conversation without even
saying words because we've been there, done that. You just go, yeah, I went to
a domestic. Oh yeah, I know.

Yeah. Stuff like that. But it also is a avenue because you're
out in the middle of the bush. You can just let it out. And there's been some
massive cathartic moments of letting things out where I've seen, I was crying,
literally grown men and women crying about their experiences and getting
support from people.

And, you know, and this organization does that free of charge.
It costs you nothing to go to those sort of things. And we help people get back
to work. Get back to their relationships. And then we've got a network across
the country through social media and phone and all that sort of stuff where we
support each other.

And all that, all we have to do is on social media or on
WhatsApp or whatever. I'm having a tough day. Can somebody call me? There's a
network of support. And I've been with them since 2018. And now I'm a director
of the organization and helping, you know, people get back on track and it's
just fantastic.

It is so fantastic. Yeah. And it's all, it's all peer led, but
it's also assessed by University South Australia that we are doing stuff far,
far in excess of what other organizations are doing.

Rosie Skene:

I think,
yeah, with the, I think Trek is amazing and I want to talk more about it
because I know it's had a massive impact on your life and, but just what you
said at the end there is that they're actually doing something.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.
Yeah. And it's proven to be

Rosie Skene:

working
and there's so many, there's so many other organizations that are led by
veterans or veteran police officers or, you know, that, that actually get it
because we know, and even what I'm trying to do with my yoga programs, because
we know what it's like to be in those job roles and we know what it's like to
leave Yeah.

with an injury, especially a mental health injury

and how isolating that can be because When you leave, your
friends within the organization still either don't want to catch it or don't
know how to communicate with you because it's like you've immediately changed
into a person that is different to who you were before, which is not the case.

Um, and they don't want to, or they don't want to trigger you.
Because there's just such a, a lot of misinformation out there. So I think we
all understand what it's like to have to go through that by yourself. And if
you're not lucky enough to have a partner with you, like you with Libby,
especially, it can be so, so difficult.

And I think it's so important that there are these
organizations out there that get it because they have the, the veteran or the
police officer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Health at the forefront and they just, all
they want to do is help. And I just think that's an amazing thing.

Roger Eichler:

Exactly. Because when you're in a job like ours or anything like that, any of
the emergency services or whatever, that is your, that becomes your identity.

It becomes you. And then when you leave that organization, you
totally lose your identity. And I hung on to that ex cop identity for way too
long. And eventually, as you read in my book, I discovered that hanging onto
that identity was destroying my family. So one night I had to do something
about it. So I burnt everything.

I owned absolutely everything except for my medals, which I
still don't know where they are in the house. I'm too scared to pick them up
still because it still hurts me so much, but I'm not going to lose those. But I
burnt everything. I, I kept. Shirts, pants, my ID card, I kept everything and I
just burnt everything because, and I, all my big briefs that I had, because she
could keep all that sort of stuff back in the day.

Yeah.

Even my court case, I kept that. I was hanging onto it because
I thought it'd be important one day. No, it was just causing more toxic stuff
inside my body. And that's what happens with PTSD and being in this sort of
career. It's like having a wound filled with pus and you're just hanging onto
that and hanging onto it and hanging onto it.

And then when you go to a camp like Trojans Trek camp, you open
up that wound and squeeze all the pus out or start to squeeze the pus out and
you start to release all that hate anger, and I carried far too much hate and
anger for too long and I buried it in a bottle and, um, yeah, and, and self
abuse and all that sort of stuff.

And that's what you got to do with these sort of things and,
and doing these talks and everything, we're able to talk about it and you got
to talk about it. I had one guy who came, he was an ex cop. He went to St. John
of God 44 times. He went to the son and son John of God place 44 times. And all
he did was come out with a handful of pills every single time he did two camps
with Trojans trick.

And it totally changed his life because you can go back a
second time and it still costs you nothing.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
That's we

Roger Eichler:

cover
all costs. So he went, I took him, I literally took him myself. I picked him up
in my car, took him to the airport, got flow down to Adelaide. We went to the
Flinders ranges. Had our camp, did it a second time with him.

It changed his life and he was able to reconnect with people he
hadn't spoken to for years. Totally. Years. Unfortunately, he passed not that
long ago because of cancer, but, um, it literally changed his life as well.
Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

That's
incredible. Isn't it? 44 times.

Roger Eichler:

44
times to a medical facility and all he walked out of there was a dose of pills
every single time.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

I mean,
I, I've never had, um, medication and I'm definitely not opposed to it. I think
if people need it, then you've got to do what you've got to do. Yeah. Bye.
There's, it's just, there's other options as well. And there's other things
that you can do in conjunction with a medication treatment.

Roger Eichler:

Absolutely. And we don't say you've got to stop your pills. We never talk about
that sort of stuff. Take your pills. If you feel you need them and your doctor
says you've got to take them, that's your thing. But this, this is all
complimentary stuff. And we start every day on a traditional camp with yoga.

Yeah. Mindfulness. Um, and we're introducing ice baths as well,
which is optional. You don't have to do that, but we do all this sort of stuff.
And then we do lessons throughout the day about how to change your thinking
and, and neuro linguistic plasticity and all that sort of stuff, changing your
mindset, talking about, um, rebuilding your brain because PTSD incidents
literally damage your brain and you end up with permanent brain damage.

And yes, it is. You can rebuild it, but it takes time to heal
just like a broken arm, broken leg, whatever it might be. It takes time to
heal. It took me 17 years to become broken and totally broken. And it's taken
me about 17 years to be where I am today. It takes a lot of work and you'll
have ups and downs.

You'll have ups and downs like anything else. It

Rosie Skene:

does
take a lot of work. It takes a hell

Roger Eichler:

of a
lot of work. I think, yeah,

Rosie Skene:

if you,
it's. difficult. I have my friends, you know, that are leaving the job now and
they're like, you know, what can I do next? What am I going to do? Because I
think we're worried that if we stop and actually look after ourselves for a
while, it's something, something else is going to happen or we're not going to
be okay.

But something I try and say is, you know, I think you just need
to stop right now.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

And not
worry about working and focus on yourself because it takes a long time to, to
move through this process of PTSD. One acknowledge that you've got it because I
think that's something that we struggle with a lot.

Like we don't want to be another person that's left a job with
a mental injury, a mental illness or a mental injury from our job or a
psychological injury. Whatever you want to call it, I think because of the
stigma is still there and it's still attached to it even now when people leave
they don't want to be weak or Whatever they think and they want to move on as
quickly as possible But it you can't always do that because I think if you move
from one thing like policing especially to something else Without addressing
what's actually going on inside you you're setting yourself up for failure

Roger Eichler:

Hmm.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is in a, in a job like ours,
we serve the community every day and we concentrate on serving the community
every day, but we don't do anything for ourselves.

Yeah.

So we have to change that mindset of doing everything for the
community and mate, you got to look after yourself.

Simple as that, you're number one, you've served, thank you so
much for your service, whether it was six months, 12 months, 12 years, whatever
it might be. Thank you so much for your service. You've done your bit. You have
certainly done your bit and you've changed lives. You won't know who they are,
but people will think of you one day and go, person said something to me.

Thank you so much for your service. You've done your bit. Now
look after yourself and your partner and your family. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

I know
in your book, you had a really traumatic incident and that, and you just
mentioned before the day, the day after that was finalized at court, you lost
your job.

Roger Eichler

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

But
during that whole, , part of your life and you're talking about how you pled
guilty to something that, um, you probably shouldn't have, but it didn't matter
to you because at that time you thought you, you had made a decision to end
your life anyway.

So whatever happened was going to be irrelevant to you because
of that. And then do you want to talk about that and what happened after that?
Because I, I'm so interested in how you didn't do that.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

And
thank goodness you didn't, only if you want to totally not talk about it.

Roger Eichler:

No,
no, no. You've never asked that question.

Nobody has ever, I should say, nobody's ever asked that
question. So what happened was I was working in Cooma at the time and it was
2006. And after working in a one or two man station, you get used to working by
yourself all the time, even in a station as big as where we had 30 staff. Um,
I'd still go out by myself because that's just what you do.

Um, and they go, no, no, no, Roger, I'll come with you. No, no,
no. Like if you're busy, I'm just going for a drive. Yeah. I'm just going to
fly the flag, whatever. So that this night in August, 2006, My mate and I, we
had a hell of a lot of paperwork to catch up on. And I had been sitting at the
computer for about 10 hours, no, eight hours, sorry, eight hours, just typing
stuff up statements and whatever else writing jobs off and all that.

And we could hear explosions around the town. It was quite
common because back in the day, you could buy firecrackers in Canberra and take
them back to Cooma and set them off at home and all those sorts of things.
And people would make. You know, little, um, cracker bombs and blow up letter
boxes and stuff like that.

And we were sitting in the station. We could hear the odd bang,
blah, blah, blah. And we thought, I will, we'll just wait for somebody to call
a job because we're not going to see anybody about 10 o'clock. I said to my
mate, look, I am tired of sitting here for eight hours, just typing. I'm just
going to go for a 10 minute drive.

And he said, yeah, that's fine. I said, look, I'll come back
and we'll pick you up and do our last lap of town. Make sure all the pubs are
shut and then we can call it quits. Yep. Cool. So I went for a drive and. At
that time, I was extremely proactive with catching drug dealers and targeting
certain drug dealers in town.

And I had about 12 cases going where I was monitoring all these
crooks around town and building intelligence on all these people so that one
day I could get search warrants and go through their houses and do whatever had
to be done. And so I was passing all these different houses, seeing what was
there.

If I see anybody, I'll talk to them. If I saw any cars, I'd
write down numbers. Yeah. So I could build a report and I was driving down the
street towards one particular drug dealers place. And I could see two shadows
in the distance and I'll walking down the street towards this known drug
dealers house.

And he was a big dealer and he was always selling to the kids
in town and all that sort of stuff. And I could see those two shadows. And I
could tell that they turned around, they saw me, and they just ran. And I
thought, oh, here we go, they're up to no good. So what does a policeman do?
You take chase yourself.

I was in the police car and they ran through a paddock. So I
followed him through this paddock and it was pretty dark. Um, and then one of
them was extremely quick and he just took off into the distance and we're
running through the paddock and it was down into an old, when they built the
snowy scheme, it was an old camp area where they had all this camp
accommodation for all the laborers and everything.

And there was a road. And I drove through the paddock and old
mate was next to me, the second guy. And I thought that he did the jackrabbit
thing and turned around and ran behind me. And it's before I hit an embankment
on the other side of the road, I turned the car, hit the skids, jumped out to
take chase because I thought he was running behind me.

As I jumped out of the car, I could see somebody under the back
wheel of my car. And I thought, holy Jesus, um, this ain't good. Um, he was
moaning and groaning and all that sort of thing. And I reversed the car, but I
only reversed it a couple of inches. Cause I knew if I kept going, I'd probably
run over more of him.

But what actually happened was my back driver's wheel was on
his chest, on his back. And, um, I, I reversed the car off him and I called
urgent, urgent duty you know, I'll need backup immediately . And I left him
there. I didn't move him and all that sort of stuff. Ambulance were called. Um,
Cooma is an hour and 15 minutes South of Queanbeyan BN, our head station.

And the duty officer there said, you know, call out the local
duty officer, which I did. Ambulance came. Um, I had no idea who this person
was. And I, I still have not seen his face apart from that one day in court. ,
We got him onto a stretcher. They flew him out with the care flight helicopter.
And he went to hospital and I got taken to the station and put into custody,
uh, breath tested.

And while I'm sitting in the station still fully armed, , they
came in and said, Rog, we think he's dead. We've been told that he's not going
to survive. And it was a 15 year old boy. And, um, I just absolutely broke,
absolutely broke, started crying and all that sort of stuff. After about an
hour and a half, I said, am I able to have a support person?

Because it's, you know, it's been a couple of hours since the
accident, about two hours since the accident, you've done all your tests and
all that sort of stuff. Um, and I said, Oh, geez, that's a good idea. And then
I said, do you think it's a good idea if I get rid of my gun? I've still got
it.

And

they looked at each other, the two duty officers now, plus
another constant, the guy that I was working with, Darren, I looked at each
other and I, they went, Oh shit, he's still got his gun.

And yeah, I was prepared well and truly prepared. And we went
to the gun unloading room and it was just a tie. It used to be a cupboard. It
was a tiny little room that only one person could physically fit in really. And
there was four of us in there just in case Rog did the thing. I unloaded my
gun, locked it away and all that sort of stuff.

And I'm just broken, absolutely broken. Libby came into the
station and she was waiting for a day like this because she knew it was a shit
job. There was eventually something was going to happen. Eventually something
was going to happen. And we, we went out into the meal room of the station. Um,
and she's going, what the hell happened?

And I explained to her what happened and she goes, Oh my God,
what's going to happen now? I said, I have no idea. I have no idea what's going
to happen now. And I've spoken to the legal rep from the union and his words
were, do not say a word to anybody. And apart from your name and date of birth,
don't admit anything.

Don't say anything. Don't write anything. Say nothing. Make a
couple of notes in your notebook if you have to, but do not say a word. And I'm
sitting there going, okay, I've killed this kid and all that sort of stuff. And
then we heard the chopper fly off because the hospital was close to the
station. And then Darren, my partner comes in and he, he says, Rog, Rog, Rog.

And I get up and he goes, Rog, he's, he's going to survive.
It's not as bad as they said, he's not dead. And I just, I literally collapsed.
Darren grabbed me by my jacket, my leather jacket. That's it. And he held me up
off the floor and my legs are shaking and all that sort of stuff. And I just
started to weep again, Libby came over, she hugged me.

And eventually my commander came in and he was my boss for
seven years. And I had never spoken to him in that time. He was my boss when I
was out at Euston and he never came into the station to talk to me. He came in
to tick and flick all the books, do his annual inspection and drive off. And in
seven years he finally came in and he said, Roger, let's go and have a talk.

So we made me a cup of tea and 15 minutes later he got up and
walked out. And that's the only time we spoke in seven years. Until the day
after my court case. So anyway, I was told, yeah, he's going to survive. He
ended up with eight broken ribs, two punctured lungs, a broken arm. He was back
at school six weeks later, but my son went to the same high school and, and,
and, and, and our, uh, our second child, our eldest daughter, they both went to
the same high school, but our son was in year 10.

At that time, and this kid was in year nine, so there was a
sort of a network there. So I have no idea what happened at school, but it was
horrible. That's all I know. It was horrible for our son. No doubt there was
abuse and bullying and all that sort of stuff. I still don't know to this day
what happened.

And I really don't want to know. Um, Because of the impact and
all that sort of stuff, but my son had to step up and become dad because I was
broken, absolutely broken. I didn't know how to basically wipe my backside. I
was absolutely broken. Then for the next nine months, I went through the
process of being served two summonses while sitting at home with my wife.

Um, Drive manner dangerous causing grievous bodily harm and
negligent driving causing grievous bodily harm. And throughout the entire
process, I was never told by my legal representatives whether I should plead
guilty or not guilty. That decision was left up to me.

Rosie Skene:

They
didn't give you any advice at all?

Roger Eichler:

No
advice whatsoever.

Rosie Skene:

Incredible, isn't it?

Roger Eichler:

Absolutely no advice. Here's the brief. This is what we've got. We've got all
the information now. Now we're leaving the decision up to you. Here's a guy who
couldn't even wipe his backside. Here's a guy who wanted to. Basically, get a
rope and jump off a tree, and Rodge, we're leaving it up to you.

And I thought nobody gives a shit about me. And in the end, I
just said, I'm going to plead guilty to the lesser charge. As long as I throw
the higher charge out, I ended up getting a whole heap of supporting, um,
references from different people, from medical professionals. I had four
different psychologists.

One was an ex cop. And he was great because he knew the whole
process, he knew everything. And so I had four psychologist reports saying what
the impact was on me. I had all these different reports. I had commendations
from, um, the community out at Euston coming from the mayor and different
representatives out there and from the local community in Coomera.

I had all these supporting reports. And the magistrate
literally said, Roger, I have no idea why you pleaded guilty to this matter.
You shouldn't have, and I'm dismissing the matter. And. I broke down.
Absolutely broke down. I was totally broken. I actually sat in the witness box
at that time, you know, and said, you know, my career is over, but I didn't
want the career to be over.

I want to move into a different part of the career. And so I
went. Yeah. And then my commander was in the courtroom that day. And then
literally the next morning he rang up and said, Roger, you gave evidence
yesterday that your career is over. So I'm signing your papers. Goodbye. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

It's
incredible.

Roger Eichler:

Absolutely incredible. So no, I did not leave the police force. I was
terminated.

Through the process of receiving a very mediocre pension and
all that sort of stuff. Um, and no, it wasn't a mortgage breaking pay out and
all that sort of stuff. All the rumours that used to go around that when you got
out of the cops, you get this mortgage busting pay out.

No, you don't. You get some money. But it is taxed at something
like 67 percent or whatever it was. I didn't end up with that much money at
all. Um, but I ended up with permanent brain damage. I've got, I've had three
different psychiatrists look at my head and they've all agree. I've got at
least a 10 percent brain deficit.

So I've got pretty significant brain injury and yeah, I
struggled with alcohol even to the day. I still enjoy a drink, but I don't
drink three bottles of wine a night like I used to. Um, yeah. And I still have
nightmares. I still have hyperactivity and hyper vigilance and all that sort of
stuff. I still have, um, chronic panic attacks at work.

So I, I've, I've got a gift that just keeps giving as a, as
they say, it's a lovely gift. It's a very unique gift.

But outta that, I am, but out of all of that, I'm still giving
back to the community because I'm a huge supporter of. Doing stuff for the
community. So I still do work for Rotary, but also now Trojans Trek, and that's
my passion now, and I'm helping veterans of whatever service and back onto the
veteran thing, if I could just say, we all talk about the military and their
service, right?

And their service is fantastic. You know, I'm not discrediting
it one, one, one iota, but when they go away on deployment and become, you
know, confronted with tragic circumstances, their deployment is about six
months. Maybe 12 months. They might do one or two duties overseas and
everything. You and I, we were deployed every single day of our career.

So I did 17 years on the front line, 17 years of being impacted
by everything that community can throw at you.

Rosie Skene:

I love
that you've just said that because, , and I'm smiling and nodding as he's
saying it. I, my husband was, in Defence and a few of his friends asked me, you
know, Oh, I'm thinking about joining the cops.

I was like, Oh, yeah, pretty much. But one of the things that I
used to say is that when you get deployed in Defence that there's a, a process
to that, , they speak to psychologists and you know that you're going to war or
whatever, whatever you're doing on your deployment. You're very, very aware of
what you're about to step into.

Even though of course it's. And I've spoken to veterans. It's,
it can be so much worse than what you ever imagined, but you have a preparation
process for that. When you're in the police, there's every day. It's every
single day, every single day. You don't know what's going to happen every
single day.

You're a target.

Roger Eichler

Yeah,

Rosie Skene:

because
of the colour uniform that you're wearing, um, you're very vulnerable, , and,
and there's no preparation for that. You're not properly. I don't believe that
you're properly prepared for that. And then if you want to take it a step
further and apply to work at a small station or lock upkeeper residence, you
literally living in a fishbowl.

You are a target 24 seven then, but not only you, your partner,
who is responsible for taking phone calls when you're not there answering the
door when you're not there, your children, like you said, go to the same school
as the kids in town who are the children of crooks that are in town. You know,
it's, it's a whole nother thing that you'd totally not prepared for.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Your entire family is a target.

Rosie Skene:

It is.
And so, like you said, it's like going to war every single day because

Roger Eichler:

that's
what it

Rosie Skene:

is.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Yeah. Like literally standing in your station in a one man or two man station,
you will have somebody come in and end up threatening you with a knife or
punching you or whatever.

Or you go to a, I went to a job where I had to inquire about
I've lost property or a concern for welfare for this particular lady and she
chased me off the property with an axe and a shovel.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

How do
you prepare for these sort of things?

Rosie Skene:

You
don't. There's nothing.

Roger Eichler:

You
don't? You go to a domestic and here comes a husband around the corner with a
knife in his hand wanting to stab you.

How do you prepare for that sort of stuff? And that's at two in
the morning or 10 at night or five in the morning, you know, start your day
with your morning breakfast, your cocoa pops, and then go and pull a body out
of a car.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Yeah. How do

Roger Eichler:

you
prepare for that?

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
And I don't know what the answer is either. It's, it's so difficult and we, you
know, we need people to do those jobs. We need the, , we need the good people
to not only do the jobs, but stay in the jobs and feel supported.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
And that was the, that was the biggest problem in my 17 years in the job. I had
10 years of obscene bullying.

So I didn't get any support for 10 of my 17 years.

Rosie Skene:

You
actually got the opposite of support.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah,
yeah, totally. Threats of violence, threats of, um, dismissal, threats of
demotion, threats of, uh, being charged, um, just micromanaging and bullying
and intimidation for 10 years. So I've got PTSD from not only the work, but
also the work environment.

Rosie Skene:

Absolutely.

Roger Eichler:

And I
have massive mistrust issues. I don't trust anybody. And nobody I've struggled
to trust people because the people that I sat next to in the police truck put
complaints in about me. And this is the person that you trusted with your life
going to domestics and stuff like that. And then they put a complaint in about
you.

Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really hard. The impact

Rosie Skene:

is wide,
isn't it?

Roger Eichler:

Absolutely. Once they get to a level of management, they are always right. It's
really hard for the subordinate like you or I to say that we are the right
person and then be supported by management to believe you. Yeah. Yeah. And no
matter what you say, they are always right.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's tough. And yeah, look, it's not just
police. It's every service, every service, whether it's nursing or whatever,
it's all the same. And these sorts of jobs take their toll and they should have
a life expectancy. Okay. You want to join the cops? You're only doing it for
five years because we want to protect you.

Rosie Skene:

Yes.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Because it's going to break you eventually because the average life expectancy
of a copper is around 17 years. At the most, you

Rosie Skene:

know,

Roger Eichler:

I got
to the 17 year point and all that sort of stuff. How many years did you do?

Rosie Skene:

I did
12. And when I joined, I remember them, , saying actually at the academy that
it was I think it was three and five, like three for women and five for men at
that time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And

Rosie Skene:

I think
I'm sure it's less than that now.

Roger Eichler

Oh, for
sure.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
It's definitely not a long term role.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Yeah. Because you're not just dealing with doing stuff for the community,
you're dealing with the community. Yeah. The impact of shift work and working
weekends and missing out on family life.

And in 17 years, I had Christmas with my family five times.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like all those sorts of things and missing out on kids
birthdays and all those milestone moments, because you don't have a normal life
because you don't have go home at five o'clock Friday and come back to work on
Monday. You work weekends.

The best night of the week is Friday and Saturday night. You're
out there dealing with pub brawls.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
That's it. Yeah. Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Someone
that's, I've not met her, but she sounds beautiful. And she wrote the last
chapter of your book is your beautiful wife, Libby. How I know, , it's been
such a big impact having her, but how, how did she come to you and say, , I
think she was the one that said to you, , you need help.

Right. She, she's the one

Roger Eichler:

she
knew for years. She knew for years I had problems when we were in Dubbo and I
had that very first near death experience with that child that nearly stabbed
me to death over a packet of Maltesers, , while I was off duty. Protecting the
community is stupid. Me. , she knew then that I started to get problems then
that was in 1999, but Euston was the best and worst place for us.

It was the best place because it really bonded our family, but
the worst place because of the impact of the work on myself and my family, and
I just deteriorated rapidly there. I didn't notice it, but Libby certainly
noticed that, um, because they pick up on the things you become moody, you
become grumpy.

Uh, yeah. You scream at the drop of a hat and all that sort of
stuff. And she look, she just coped. She had to step up. She had to do things
over and above what her wife should do. Um, my mood changes constantly and all
and was really bad back then. , and then eventually, , as I said, she became my
advocate for my health and she sourced.

Anything from anybody, how can I help? How can she do this? And
she drove me to all sorts of medical appointments all over the place. Um, and
here's the thing, guys, if you are suffering from PTSD and you have a partner
or a person that you've seriously trust and you're living single, but this
person seriously trusts you with your first couple of appointments, when you
see your, Psychologists or psychiatrists have them come in with you to explain
how you are, because you go in there and you go, Oh, I'm fine.

Oh yeah. I'm a little bit moody. Oh yeah. I've got this
problem. Blah, blah, blah. No, have your partner come in. And that's what I
always did. Libby would come in and go, no, he's a dickhead. He does this,
this, this, and this, and this. Oh. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I do. Yeah. She,
because you have to have that neutral person that sees it from the outside
world because you're a person with mental health telling a professional about
your mental health.

You're seeing it through your broken eyes. Yeah. You don't get
what you're doing. Your partner does.

Yeah. Your partner sees you at night punching yourself and
scratching at your face and kicking out and lashing out and screaming in your
sleep. You don't see that. They do. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. I
love, I loved seeing her chapter at the end of the book because I don't know if
you listen, I had Sarah, U'Brien on who's another wife of a family.

Former New South Wales, police officer. And she is very strong
advocate for her husband. Incredible, like incredible woman. And Libby, when I
was reading about her, reminds me so much of her. Um, and they just don't have
a voice yet. , and that's why I wanted to get Sarah on because she has such a
strong voice and she'll, she'll use it.

, which I think is amazing. And I just didn't, I wanted other,
Wives, especially, um, but partners of police to feel seen in our journey,
because we can get stuck in our own little pity party,

Roger Eichler:

um,

Rosie Skene:

and not
recognize the impact that they have on us. And I think it's just so important.
So I thought that was a really beautiful, um, comment.

Part of the book was to give her a voice and her involvement
in, in your PTSD.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
I, I wrote that book over six years and it took a hell of a lot of work to
write that book and I'd write chapters and it'd be all hate and anger and all
that sort of stuff. And then I'd rewrite it after I saw a psychologist or
whoever it was.

And then when we were living out at young for a short period of
time. We had an incident and we both went to, uh, an organization called quest
for life, and it helped us incredibly as well. That was all about, um, dealing
with trauma and how to manage it and all that sort of stuff, because we'd lived
with trauma and, um, while she was there, she wrote that chapter

and,

and she took it to two of her, Um, mentors at the, at quest for
life and said, what do you think?

And they said, absolutely perfect. I asked her to write that
because I, I was telling a story from a father and a broken policeman and all
that sort of stuff, but I always spoke about my family and I wanted the, the
impact of the family to be heard from the other side as well. And that's what
Libby did.

And, um, even when I read the, her chapter today, I just start
crying. Yeah, I was definitely crying. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, yeah, it's. It's
very eye opening, extremely eye opening when you read her chapter. Yeah, yeah,
I tell all my war stories and I'm broke and I went to court, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah. And then when you see Libby's bit, oh yeah, that's interesting.

Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

, so I
called the podcast triumph beyond trauma because I wanted to share with other
people who might've had, um, or might be having, you know, um, suicidal
thoughts or ideation or depression or anxiety or PTSD. Um, and we get stuck in
our, like I said before, our own little pity parties because we can't see.

The, the triumph that can come and

Roger Eichler:

triumph,

Rosie Skene:

I think
can be anything to, um, being able to get out of bed for those that can't do
that and have a shower and wash your hair if you haven't done that for a month.
But you're doing amazing things with Trojans Trek and you've mentioned it
already,

but I want to know how that came about for you. How did you get
involved at the start?

Roger Eichler:

Uh,
well, I was, um, as I said, I read a book by a Vietnam veteran, um, shot fire,
I think it's called, I've still got the book. And he spoke about Trojans Trek
in there because he was one of the founding members of Trojans Trek and Trojans
Trek came about because of these two guys, Moose and Dogs their names are of
course, Moose and Dogs

they came about, they saw too many of their mates taking their
lives and being traumatized by their experience in Vietnam. And so they created
this foundation and for 10 years, they, they did this and here's two big burly
blokes and we're going away on a camp and we're talking about feelings. How do
you do that?

Like, but you got to, you got to talk about that sort of stuff.
And, and when I read about it in the book, the whole book resonated with me
because Dogs wrote about his experience in Vietnam and all the tragedy and
trauma. And it just looked like my life dealing with tragedy and trauma and all
that sort of stuff in my career and everything.

And then he spoke about. Doing a camp and reflecting on what
was happening throughout the camp, throughout different stages of the book and
all that sort of stuff. And it just resonated so much. So I did some Googling
and I got in contact with Moose and Moose said, you're on the next camp. And I
went to the camp and it just blew my mind.

Absolutely blew my mind. We go in as broken warriors and we
come out as repaired warriors. We come out as a, a rising warrior, so to speak
after five days of working with peers, talking about peers and so on. And then
in 2021, after all the bushfires through South Australia and Victoria and
everything, they had a camp specifically for emergency services.

It was always a blend, but this one was just for firefighters,
cops, and ambos. And I was asked to be a mentor and facilitator on that camp.
And that's a massive step where you go from being just a participant to being a
facilitator. And here you are in front of a group of veterans who've
experienced their stuff from South Australia, Victoria, and yeah, and New South
Wales on this camp.

And you're talking about stuff. And being honest and being, you
know, talking about your emotions and traumas and stuff like that and how to
cope with those sorts of things. And then, you know, and now I'm a director of
Trojans Trek and helping track down people who need to go on this and tracking
down funding and all that sort of stuff.

And that's our biggest problem is it's all self funded. How do
we fund it? Um, but yeah, and, and just, it just gives me a buzz that people go
in there and they've got their run. Baggage when they come out, they're all a
buzz and they're feeling better and they've got new direction or they've got a
direction and that they understand that every day is a different day.

And just waking up every morning, is it an achievement? So give
yourself a slap on the back and pat on the back and go, I made it, I made it to
another day and I'm going to get better. And yes, you have your ups and downs,
as I said. But you are going to get better and you are going to build
relationships and you are going to become that normal person and you are going
to leave a legacy.

You will leave a legacy that if you do what you want to do and
need to do, you will leave a legacy. Instead of leaving a legacy of a big house
with all the flash cars and, and a family that hates you. A legacy of when
they're at your doorstep. Yeah. Who's going to carry your coffin.

Yeah.

Think of that. Who is going to carry your coffin?

Is there going to be a, just a bunch of people just dragging
you into the cemetery? Or is there going to be people fighting to say he or she
was a wonderful person. I want to be that person that takes you to your grave
and thanks you for your service and your time and your love.

Rosie Skene:

I love
that you've made your way through Trojan's Trek from a participant to now being
a director and that obviously speaks volumes of, of the program.

Roger Eichler:

Hmm.
That's fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. And yes, it's, it's cost you nothing
apart from time. Absolutely nothing. And we go to either South Australia or
Queensland, two different places. We get away from phones. We get away from
social media. We get away from all that. So we can concentrate on you. And us
and help you heal and help you get direction and, and do what you need to do,
either go back to work or, you know, start afresh or rebuild your
relationships.

It's all about you and it costs you nothing, not a cent apart
from a week away.

Rosie Skene:

So it's
a week long

Roger Eichler:

and

Rosie Skene:

how many
participants do you have?

Roger Eichler:

We
have, we have 15 participants and we always have about three mentors per
participant. And. Yeah. And we don't camp in the bush per se. We go to the
Flinders ranges where there is accommodation and you have showers and there's a
kitchen and all that sort of stuff.

And we build a team with all the participants and facilitators
and we, and over the week, we just have this magical experience of working
together to turn you into a beautiful person by the end of the week and the new
network of friends. And the other camp is up near, um, Toowoomba in Queensland.
Yeah.

And, and it's all undercover that you're not sleeping on the
dirt or anything like that, but you've got to get away from the noise, the
social media noise, the media noise and all that sort of stuff so that you can
concentrate on yourself. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
What do you, I know, um, like I've taken part in retreats before and, and
programs and I always have this little voice on my shoulder that says, no,
don't do it.

And that's anxiety for sure, because you don't know. You don't
know what's going to come. You don't know what's going to come out.

Roger Eichler:

You're
scared of the unknown.

Rosie Skene:

Yes,
very much so. Very scared. So what do you say to people who might be thinking
about taking part in the program, but might be feeling that bit of anxiety or
feeling a bit scared to do so?

Roger Eichler:

Look,
All I can say is take the leap. You're scared of the unknown. You have no idea
what's going to happen at the end. And you're scared of it. Breaking you or
making you and what invariably, invariably, it makes you a better person by the
end of the camp. Yeah. Let's call it a retreat. It's just fantastic.

You fly into Adelaide or you fly into Brisbane. You get picked
up on a bus. You're, you're amongst peers. You're amongst people who have
walked in your shoes. They get you. You don't have to explain everything. You
don't have to break anything down because, yeah, we've got AMBOS on there, the
camps I've done, AMBOS, military, cops, um, corrective services.

They've, we've walked the same path. We've all got our own
traumas. We don't have to explain anything. And look, it's just outstanding. It
is just outstanding. The smiles at the end of the camp says it all. Look it up
on social media, Trojan's Trek.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
I'll link to, I'll link to all of the websites and everything on the show
notes.

Cause it's

Roger Eichler:

amazing. And we're always looking for more people and we're always looking for
people who can help with corporate sponsorship as well, because it just does
outstanding stuff. And. Yeah, it's just outstanding. I can't explain it in
simple terms. It's life changing,

Rosie Skene:

life
changing, life

Roger Eichler:

changing, all those silly, you know, normal journey words and all that stuff.

It is just fantastic. And we've got a camp coming up in April
next year. I don't know if we've got another one before the end of this year,
but, um, with the colour couple, because we're just, we're burning out our
participants, everything is run by veterans. It's fantastic.

Yeah.

It's a total volunteer led organisation.

The whole thing is volunteers and veterans of those services.
And we've all got our own different skill sets and we all compliment each
other. And we're all sisters and brothers guys. If you give it a chance, just
come along, just come along and, um, you'll be a different person by the end of
it.

Absolutely. Yeah. That's

Rosie Skene:

amazing.

Before we finish today,
, I usually ask a couple of questions. , but the one that I really like to ask,
especially to those people that have had, , suicidal ideation, , is what is
something that you could share to other people that might be in that situation
right now, , to give them a little bit of hope, I guess, , or knowledge that
things aren't always going to be this way.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
If you're suffering and you, and you're in that black stage, um, it's not the
end of the story. It's just part of your story and the way you recover is.
It's, it's up to you of course, and you can't just sit there and wait for
someone to snap their fingers and fix it for you. You have to become open and
honest and take those steps.

And yes, suicide finishes it for you. The impact on the people
that love you is far worse. Yeah. I went to too many suicides in my career and
probably in your career as well. And, and yeah, they've got an easy, when you
take your life, it's an easy resolution because of the noise. I totally get it.
The noise just pushes you to that point.

It's hard to explain, but yeah, it just, yeah, it's going to be
easy if I just drop off the page today, but the impact on your loved ones far
exceeds, you know, you, you taking your life. It's going to be tough steps to
deal with that sort of stuff. Really, really tough steps. You'll go into the
depths of emotions and feelings and thoughts.

As you're going through those steps of working with your
professionals, Whoever you work with, um, But you have to take those steps and
you will be a stronger person for it at the, you know, later on in your life.
And then you will be able to help somebody else. And, and this is the thing,
and this is why I volunteer and all, and all those sorts of things.

And my motto is, is this the greatest exercise for your heart
is when you help somebody else stand up. And that's why I do Trojans Trek. And
that's why people who are having those dark thoughts, if you start giving back
to the community in a different way, and you're helping others through Rotary,
through Alliance, CWA, whatever you want to do, start making yourself feel
better by doing something for the community or for loved ones or in your church
or whatever it might be to help those people stand up and feel better.

And then they will thank you. And you We'll start to change and
it's a, it's a tough journey. It's a tough, tough journey.

Rosie Skene:

Thank
you. Yeah, I agree with you that. When you start to do something for other
people, even though you might not have the wants or need or capability to do
something for yourself, even, um, but if you can do little things for other
people, that can be the greatest healing.

Roger Eichler:

Absolutely. That you

Rosie Skene:

can do.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. To
get the joy out of that.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Yeah. And all those things that happened to you in the past. Yes. That is your
story. That's part of you. It'll be with you forever, but you've got to work on
your coping mechanisms and your ability to deal with all that stuff. And, and
it's still a problem for me.

I still talk to professionals. Even at work now, I talk to the
employee assistance program quite regularly and other professionals. Yeah.
Yeah. There's plenty of organisations out there that you can ring up. You know,
lifeline and all those sorts of things to get help. Yeah. And I

Rosie Skene:

always,
I always link to those in the show notes, right.

In the, in there, because it's so important to, to be able to
reach out or, , use the phone and call someone. And some of them have amazing
text messaging services if you don't want to talk to them. Yeah. Yeah. It's so
important, I just, what I really want to say is thank you so much for Your
service, of course, um, and, and for doing all the things that you've done, but
for writing your book. And then also for coming on here with me today and
talking about it, because I think by sharing our stories, we almost give other
people permission to do the same.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

And when
we talk about our experiences, we give people, you know, a bit of motivation to
say, , or check in with themselves and how am I doing? And should I talk to
someone and how is my family going? So I really, really appreciate you coming
on and talking about everything that you have today.

I think it's so important and I really appreciate it.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
The title of my book. I called it the price of protecting others. And that's
pretty much what your service does. Yeah. You pay a price for protecting
others. And Libby gave me that title and my mom and dad tried to understand my
PTSD for years and years and years and dad's past now, but he was a war
veteran.

He was, my background is German. Dad was German. He was. In the
Hitler youth and he was given a gun at age 15 to go and shoot Russians. So he
had his traumas throughout his life.

Yeah.

But my mom never understood my PTSD until she read my book. She
bought my book and, and she took it home. And two days later, she rang me up
and said, I finally get it.

I get why you are the way you are and why you push away your
loved ones because you're trying to protect them.

Yeah.

Um, but it's the loved ones that you need around you to protect
you. Um, but yeah, you don't want those people to be traumatized by your
trauma. That's why you're pushing them away.

Rosie Skene:

That's
right.

That's why

Roger Eichler:

we
have broken marriages all the bloody time.

Rosie Skene:

Yes.

Roger Eichler:

But
it's those people that have been with you through that journey that are the
most important to you. Yeah. And you need to be open and honest with them. And
by Jesus, I've told Libby stuff that like it was her birthday when I told her
that I was suicidal.

Happy birthday, Lib.

Yeah. That was her birthday. Yeah. Yeah. And she's still with
me 38 years later.

Rosie Skene:

What a
woman.

Roger Eichler:

What a
woman. .

Rosie Skene:

What a
woman.

Roger Eichler:

And we
say to, we say to each other all the time, why do I love you? I dunno. You shit
me to tears and you're stuffed in the head. But I do . I have no idea why.
Yeah.

I've done everything in my power to push her away and she's
still with me.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
You're a very, very lucky man.

Roger Eichler:

Oh
God, I know you know

Rosie Skene:

it.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Oh yeah. God, I am. And I've never forgotten a birthday

Yeah. But this has been awe inspiring. You've been fantastic.
Thank you so much.

Rosie Skene:

No,
thank you. I really appreciate it. I, I can't wait to see what's next for
Trojan's Trek. I, I think it's fantastic and I, I, I love it so much.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah.
Yeah. And, and if you're able to come on a camp if you want to,

Rosie Skene:

yeah.
Um,

Roger Eichler:

re
you've got my contact details, reach out and, um.

Yeah, we'll get you down from your Coffs Harbour. Aren't you? I
am. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get you up to Queensland or South Australia and I'll be
on that camp. Guaranteed. And we'll get to meet each other.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
that'd be so good. I know that's one of the things in podcasts. You don't get
to meet a lot of people in person, but it is so great to meet you.

It's been fantastic.

Roger Eichler:

And
you as a yoga person, you can help us with our lessons and all that sort of
stuff. Yeah,

Rosie Skene:

absolutely.

Roger Eichler:

I'm
terrible at it. I love doing it, but I'm not a good teacher at all. And I don't
teach. Thank God.

Rosie Skene:

It's all
practice. Practice, practice. But it

Roger Eichler:

is a
wonderful thing. And it is so good for your mental health.

Yeah. I did a session yesterday, a yoga session, and I was in a
bad place. And when I left, I was in such a good place.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
it, it, it's, uh, it's been life changing for me. You know, you Trojans,
Trojans check for year. Yeah. And yoga's been like that for me. Yeah.
Absolutely incredible. And I dunno where I would be now without, without that
practice.

Yeah.

Roger Eichler:

Yeah,
yeah. Uh, it's fantastic. It's really, really good. Mm. No, thank you. Thank
you so much.

Rosie Skene:

I hope
you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, make sure to hit subscribe so you
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Your support means the world. My name is Rosie Skeen, join me
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Trauma. Until then, be kind to your mind and trust in the magic of your
consistent and positive efforts. Triumph Beyond your trauma is closer than you
think. Have the best week.