Rosie Skene:

Hello
and welcome, welcome to episode 27 of Triumph Beyond Trauma. Firstly, I'd love
to show my immense gratitude if you're a returning listener and a massive
welcome to new listeners that may have been tuning in for the first or second
time.

Last week's episode with Pia Schindler from Emerge & See
was really well received and I have something very similar for you this week.

So since the TPD changes were announced on August 19, there are
rumoured to now be up to about 500 NSW Police having left. So with this in
mind, and also personal experience with my mates that have left in the last
couple of months, I thought it would be amazing to get today's guest, Melissa
Arndell from Bourke Legal to talk about the workers compensation process.

Melissa practices in New South Wales, so what she speaks about
is most relevant to this state, and we do focus on police because we want to
support the large numbers that are currently leaving.

If you want specific
advice for your own circumstances, it is highly recommended that you seek legal
advice. Burke Legal are happy to offer you a free initial consultation and
their details are in the show notes. I know that this time when you've made the
decision to leave an occupation that you likely love because of workplace
injury, whether it be physical or psychological can leave you feeling anxious
and overwhelmed.

Information relation to the process can be difficult to digest,
especially with a psychological injury. And for me personally, I love learning
through audio. So anyone else who is the same, we've got you. So after moving
to regional New South Wales in 2012, Melissa pursued her passion for law while
working as a paralegal at a boutique personal injury firm.

She graduated from the Legal Profession Admission Board in 2019
and was admitted as a solicitor in May 2020. Melissa quickly found her calling
in plaintiff personal injury law, representing individuals injured at work in
accidents or public premises. She has extensive experience advocating for
clients in the Personal Injury Commission and the District Court.

Her focus is on helping first responders, especially those
suffering from PTSD, navigate the workers compensation system with compassion
and determination.

Melissa is an IRO approved lawyer, a member of the New South
Wales and Central West Law Societies and was awarded the New South Wales Law
Society's Early Career Lawyer of the Year in 2022.

She's also been a finalist for multiple prestigious awards in
2023, including Rising Star of the Year in both Private Practice and SME Law.
Beyond her legal career, Melissa enjoys spending time with her family and their
animals on a rural property near Orange, New South Wales. She's passionate
about Pilates, podcasts, and family game nights, even if she rarely wins at UNO

Melissa is just so lovely and an absolute wealth of knowledge,
so let's get into it.

Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores
journeys of resilience and hope. I'm Rosie Skene a yoga and breathwork teacher
and founder of Tactical Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mum to
three beautiful kids and a medically retired NSW police officer with PTSD, I
understand the challenges of navigating mental health in the first responder
and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've
confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness
and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together, we'll
uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter, more
fulfilling life.

Whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or
just a friendly reminder that you're not alone. Triumph Beyond Trauma has got
your back. You matter and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life
starts right here.

Melissa Arndell: It's just reassurance that people want to know that, um, that
they're supported and that they're making the right decision. And I can't of
course tell them whether they're making the right decision or not from a
medical perspective, but it's just letting them know that if they do make that
call that they need to leave and they can't go back that the system, the
workers comp system.

will actually support them and their family. It's not quite as
good, but it's a pretty good safety net. And that's, I think what most people
want to hear. And when I'm talking to them, that's where I see the relief where
they go, okay, if I, if I need to do this, I will be okay financially as well.
Yeah. Yeah.

Rosie Skene: That's a great introduction to the episode.

Melissa Arndell welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma. , thank you
so much for coming on, especially at this particular time, uh, in, I would say
the New South Wales Police Force history is, , changing a little bit in
relation to some entitlements.

So I really appreciate your time today. Would you mind telling
us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be a personal injury lawyer?

Melissa Arndell: Thanks, Rosie. Well, thank you for having me on. , I'm always
happy to have these discussions because I think it's so important that people
have information.

And you're right, it's a particularly tricky time for police
officers, um, with the recent TPD changes. And I was listening to your episode
with Pia which was fantastic. And I think it's all about just getting this
information out there. So happy to do that. Yeah. Look, in terms of my history,
um, I came to the law a little bit late.

Um, I was actually, I'd already had two kids, married, and then
decided to undertake my law degree. So that was in my 30s. And, um, when I
first started working in the law, I was drawn to the area of personal injury
because it's got that real human element. You're actually sitting across from
people, you're helping them through a really challenging time.

And, , and I just, Thought that it was a really rewarding area
of law, and as I've gone on, , and have continued to practice as a personal
injury lawyer, I've now got a real focus on first responders, specifically
police and assisting them. Now, I know, Rosie, I mentioned that I probably
wouldn't talk too much about this, but I do have a close family member who is a
police officer and who is going through PTSD.

So it's another way of me being able to give back to police
like yourself that have served and have now through no fault of their own found
themselves in a really tricky situation and um and just being able to sit down
with them and provide them with some advice about what their benefits are and
what their entitlements are I find a really rewarding area of law and it's
something that I just love love coming in and um and making a difference.

Yeah and you would see You would say when you get some really
good results for people, the weight that would be lifted because of that as
well, right? Absolutely. I mean, sometimes, or I suppose the journey, and it
can be a bit of a long journey in terms of when people are first coming in to
see me and seek some advice.

And I'll often be sitting down with, with the police officer
and also with their husband or wife as well, which I think is really important
because they're going through this process too. And they have questions too.
Um, and during those initial conferences, people are They're scared. Yeah,
they're angry.

Often. They're angry at the system. They're angry that they're
in this situation and they want information. They want to understand what what
is going to. What their next chapter is going to look like and what their life
is going to look like going forward. But as we go through the process and we
develop that rapport and we get some good results for them, you're right,
Rosie, towards the end, they're often very different people.

They have, they've had some wins, they've received only what
they're entitled to, you know, we're never asking for more than what, what they
are entitled to in terms of compensation and that kind of thing. But, , they
just, I feel like they feel like, okay, there's someone out there that's on my
side that's supporting me and I've now, you know, perhaps received some
compensation or a TPD benefit or whatever it might be that means that I can
focus on my recovery and they're doing that.

Thanks. They've had some time away from the police and they are
then thinking about what the next chapter is and, you know, sometimes the, the
change in my clients over that period of time is, is so profound. They, they
speak differently. They, um, they look different. It, it really does have a
positive impact on their life.

You know, and I'm sure we'll talk about it as well, Rosie. The
process can be difficult, and I'm not saying that it's all, um, you know,
flowers and roses and all of that kind of thing. It can be difficult as you're
going through it, but I think it's that, you know, what I want to, to tell
people today is if you're in the, in the midst of the process or in the
beginning stages that there is that light at the end of the tunnel.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, yeah, it really is. It is a process. So I guess we should
just start at the start then of that process. And I guess you're in New South
Wales and there is a lot of New South Wales police that probably listen to the
podcast. Um, if we could, we'll probably talk to that for anyone else
listening, but just a quick question.

Is the system different from state to state in Australia, or is
it reasonably similar? There are differences state to state. Yeah, and being a
New South Wales personal injury lawyer, that's my area of expertise. So that's
what we will be focusing on today. Absolutely. But, you know, if, if anyone is
listening from another state or another jurisdiction, I.

Do you recommend that you just seek some advice from an expert
in that state? Um, it's the best thing you can do if you don't gel with the
person or you hear the information and you think that's not for you, that
that's fine. But at least have that information available to you.

Rosie Skene: Yeah,
perfect. Okay, well, we'll start from the start in New South Wales, and we will
talk about New South Wales police, I guess, because that's something that's
really relevant.

so from the first initial stages of. Submitting the P902 for NSW Police or whatever that is for
the other first responder agencies right through until medical discharge. Can
you walk us through that process?

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, sure. So I'll put my lawyer hat on for
a moment, Rosie, and give a disclaimer. This is general advice.

If you do need specific advice for your circumstances, speak to
a lawyer. But look, what we want to do is give a bit of an overview of what it
looks like. And, um, Often, often the first point for police is putting in that
P902. A P902 is an incident notification. And look, we're going to talk a lot
about psychological injuries today, mainly being PTSD.

But for all injuries, if you've suffered a physical injury as a
police officer, put in that P902. And um, one thing that we might come to is
that I'll often have Police officers say to me down the track, Oh, I wish I'd
have put more in for these niggles for the little physical injuries that often
they'll say, Oh, I was just trying to get on with things and I didn't actually
put the P902 in because unfortunately smaller niggles can cause bigger injuries
down the track.

And so it's important that you do notify the police of any
physical injury. As well as a psychological injury. So, you know, if you've
seen something that has been particularly traumatic, pop that in and put a P902
in so that the police are aware that, um, you know, that's something that
you've had to deal with.

So, often when I'm seeing police officers, they've put in that
P902, they've, it, it says something along the lines of, I've had this
accumulation of traumatic experiences over 10, 20, 30 years of my policing
career and I just can't do it anymore. And We see that all the time. Um, it's
very common and in fact, um, there isn't.

There isn't much that police need to prove in terms of having a
psychological injury, of course, there needs to be a diagnosis, but it's quite
logical to think that these police that are seeing all of these things, I mean,
I've heard some of the stories on your podcast, Rosie, the things that you have
had to see, um, throughout your, your career, it would Thank you.

put someone like me, you know, a normal, normal kind of outside
that first responder area, you know, I wouldn't be able to handle it, I'm sure.
And it's that accumulation of all of those things, of the death messages, of
the motor vehicle accidents, etc, that can cause that psychological injury. So
once you've popped that in, I do recommend that you also see your GP and get a
Certificate of Capacity.

So that's a document that simply says that because of whatever
the diagnosis is, and sometimes GPs will say, well look, I think there might be
some PTSD there, but we'll refer on to a psychologist and a psychiatrist to
look into that a bit more. But because of that PTSD, I think you need some time
off work.

And so the Certificate of Capacity might say, well, for the
next month, you're not fit for your pre injury. So if you've got that P902 in,
you've got the certificate of capacity, and then you make sure that you do seek
appropriate referrals to other practitioners, normally a psychologist and a
psychiatrist, if that's what your GP recommends, that's the first step in the
process.

And, you know, for some people, they might be able to. Pop that
all in, get a little bit of treatment and head back. But what we're finding is
that the, the more that you are exposed to, the more difficult it is to be able
to go back. Because unfortunately, again, as you know, Rosie, there's, there's
all of these triggers when you are working as a police officer.

And you can't really separate from that. And so if it is
getting to the point where you're struggling psychologically, it is often the
case that your practitioners might start to say, look, I don't know if a return
is on the cards for you. Is that, was that kind of your experience or?

Rosie Skene: Yeah, I sort of, uh, struggled with that a little bit, but the
reason that I sought help was because I wasn't sure of my own capabilities to
go back on the truck.

, and I just had never wanted to be someone that wasn't able to
be relied upon as a partner. And so that is something I really struggled with.
And I resounded to the fact that I still wasn't sure about how I would react if
there was a really bad incident. , and I felt like there was only one more in
me and I would have been really tipped over the edge and, , unfortunately, I
was already there, but it was good that I recognized it.

But I definitely did struggle with that decision, , and then
just decided, yeah, I'm not going back. And I, when I talk to friends, . Now,
I, I sort of say, you know, if you can think of it as, you know, , it's
probably a bit extreme, but drinking poison, you know, how much if, if that's
what's making you ill, why would you keep drinking it?

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, and I think it sort of makes sense to a lot of people
because it, it can be a toxic environment. It's really, , harmful. And like you
said, they probably see a lot that. A lot of other people don't see. So it's,
it's not a great surprise to medical professionals when police come in after,
you know, 10 20 years and say, you know, something's not right.

Rosie Skene: Um, and unfortunately for police, they, we struggle to believe
that. Yes, we really do and have to almost be convinced that we're not okay,
but that is okay. Because that's something I remember saying to my
psychologist, I said, there's something wrong with my brain. And she's like,
no, your brain's doing exactly what it needs to do because of what you've seen
and done.

Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, yes, it is something that
I did struggle with a lot. Well, often it's also the family members that notice
it first, rather than the police officers themselves. They notice the changes.
And you know, and sometimes it's that, that push to say, Okay, something's
going on here.

Melissa Arndell: You're not the same as what you used to be. Um, and, and you're
right. I think the other thing is that it is hard. It's, it's incredibly hard
to admit that maybe this career that you've, You've poured your heart and soul
into and that you saw as your, your career for life is perhaps not something
that you can continue with.

And, and often it's. For the police officers, it's hearing from
their treating practitioners and having that decision taken out of their hands
to a degree where they're not saying, I can't do this. Someone else, the
psychiatrist is saying, you shouldn't be doing this. This is not going to end
well for you.

And you need to think about stepping back. And then the other
thing you mentioned, Rosie, is about. You're right, like having, just being in
the role that you are in for a certain period of years, what I'm finding is
that EML, who is the workers compensation insurer, they are sophisticated
enough to know that a police officer who's been serving for X number of years
has seen these things and therefore it is pretty logical that there is a PTSD
diagnosis.

So I suppose that's one point of reassurance that. Often police
will think, Oh, what happens if they don't believe me? What if they don't think
I have PTSD? Yes. Yes. You look like you resonated with that. I literally had
this conversation 40 minutes ago with someone with one of my friends. That
feeling, um, the very, very initial stages that every time you see a medical
professional that you have to prove that injury every single time and when
you're going In those very initial stages, weekly or fortnightly, you know,
you've got your GP and then you've got your psych and then, you know, the
psychiatrist will come on board.

And every time you have that feeling like, okay, now I need to
prove to them I'm still, it's been three months, but I'm still no good. That's
really hard to deal with. Um, it is. Yeah. But I guess in my experience, I'm
not seeing, it's not like there are many claims that are declined. It's, as I
said, it's what we were saying before, it is a logical.

Um, process to say, okay, this is what this person has been
through and it's, it therefore makes sense that they're suffering from this
illness. , and so even though you can think, , that you're, you do need to keep
showing that you're not okay and that, you know, this isn't, this isn't made up
and it's something that you're struggling with.

The vast majority of the time these claims are accepted. So if
the, if the medical advice is that you need some time off, , put that claim in
and, you know, and then let EML as the workers comp insurer support you in
terms of financial benefits. And perhaps that's what we can talk about next,
Rosie.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, I just, so we've talked about getting a certificate of capacity
from the GP and seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist or both, whatever you're
referred to.

And then, , what is that timeframe? for the insurer to accept
that claim.

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, so we call it accepting liability for the claim, which means
that EML is the Workers Compensation insurer is acknowledging that your injury
has been caused by your employment. And sometimes it can be quite quick. You
can get an acceptance of liability within a few weeks.

Sometimes they might ask for a little bit more information and
often that will involve attending an appointment with an independent
psychiatrist who is looking at things. From the perspective of, okay, this is
how the claim has been made. I want to examine this person. I want to see what
they're treating.

Practitioners have said, and again, confirm that that it is a
PTSD diagnosis arising from work. But again, Rosie, most of the time that that
is all. Okay, it's, it's a daunting process, especially trying to, , trying to
tell your story to someone that you've never met before, a, as a, as an
independent psychiatrist.

And also knowing that that person is working for the insurer to
a degree. I mean, they are meant to be independent. But of course, We do know
who's paying their report fee bills, but most of the time that is going through
okay.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. And for police, especially, we're paranoid of everyone and
everything. So that does add actually extra layer to it, knowing that they are
paid by the insurers.

And most of them that I've come across have been fantastic.
And, and I mentioned, you know, it wouldn't matter. Um, if you're paying me or
the insurer is paying me, I am here to do this one particular job and I'll do
the same no matter who pays me. So, um, that's actually been quite comforting
for me because I have that little bit of paranoia and it's completely normal.

It's a very normal reaction to have. Yeah, um, and then, um, So
from the acceptance of the claim from EML, and I know that this process
actually is taking quite a long time because there's a, there's a bit of a
backlog, , in relation to medical discharge. So, in that time period, um, what
happens for New South Wales Police in relation to payment?

So, I know they get a 9 month, uh, period where they're still
paid. Is it 100 percent of their pay? Wait, well, or over time and that's
correct. Yeah. Yeah. Explain that a little bit if you can.

Melissa Arndell: Yeah. So. Once the
claim is accepted, a police officer is entitled to nine months at their award
rate. So if they were a maxed out senior Connie, that's what they're going to
be receiving.

If they're a sergeant, it would be that, that figure. Um, but
you're right, Rosie, it doesn't include overtime and user pays. So sometimes
that can be a little bit less for, for someone. But I mean, for at nine months,
it's that, um, that award rate figure. And, um, Just to touch on medical
discharge quickly, a few years ago, it would be around that time, around the
nine month mark, where a medical discharge would start to occur, but now,
because of the huge backlog in terms of police officers that are going off,
especially with psychological injury, Those medical discharge processes have
been delayed considerably.

And so it's not uncommon for a police officer to be off for 18
months to 2 years before they actually get a medical discharge date. Um, it
doesn't affect anything in terms of their entitlements, but it can be really
hard to have that hanging over your head because that medical discharge date
is, It's a real line in the sand, um, you know, it's, it's bittersweet because
often a police officer will know that it's coming, um, and acknowledge that it
needs to come, but it, it means a lot in terms of then having, having that date
where you are no longer a serving police officer.

Have you been medically discharged as yet?

Rosie Skene: Yeah, I have. I was
medically discharged in 2019. Um, and back then it was pretty quick. So that
was good. And I, there's two, um, really important parts of my journey. The
first one was being diagnosed with PTSD and the empowerment that came from
that. And the second one that I like to tell my friend is that your date of
discharge is, is one of the greatest days as well, because you don't have to
deal with the police as well.

And, um, which, which is really relieving and it does like the,
the little weights on your shoulders become less and less. And I, I did
struggle with it a little bit. Um, I'd already reconciled that I, I was no
longer part of that, you know, family, um, which is still a little bit untrue
because I still have a lot of friends, um, within that, but you know, you, you
were a part of something and now you're not anymore.

And I remember saying to my husband, um, what was that all for?
You know, because it's such a bizarre day, you expect something, and it's just
today. It's just today. And I think, you know, um, some of my friends have
received text messages and I didn't get anything, which was fine because I
actually didn't want to hear from them anyway.

It's so bizarre the way your mind works. We just went out for
dinner, you know, and just, and my husband replied, , that was just a chapter
of your life. It was just part of your life. And then now you're going to do
something else. And move on. Yeah. Yeah. I still struggle with that a little
bit, but, , it's true.

It's a bizarre day, but it really is a great line in the sand
and you can feel like, you know, your recovery journey just, uh, maybe steps it
up a little bit after that as well, because that's one thing that you can now
leave behind and focus on yourself a little bit more again.

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I think that next chapter and analogy is a good one because it is about
saying, okay, that that was that and that was.

A great chapter and a hard chapter and all of those things all
rolled up into one, but , but let's focus on what's next. So, um, so as I said,
that will generally be a little bit later for police that are going off now,
but, um, Going back to the weekly benefits, we've spoken about the 9 months at
the award rate.

After that, what happens is that police will transition onto a
7 year period where they are receiving 75 percent of their award rate. So
there's that 25 percent loss. Those 75 percent payments are made up. from, ,
made up of a payment from EML, , based on the number of dependents that they
have. So if you've got dependent children or a dependent spouse, you'll
generally receive a little bit more from EML, but it doesn't matter how much
you receive from EML because TAL as the income protection insurer will top you
up to 75 percent of your award rate for that seven year period.

So this is what I'm talking about in terms of that safety net.
, A lot of police officers don't really know what they're entitled to going
forward. Some have a bit of an idea, but it's. Just that reassurance that there
is seven years, which is a decent period of time to be able to get that
assistance.

Like I said, it's not as good as if you were remaining in the
COPS, but you are getting that 75 percent to be able to assist with things like
the mortgage and the household expenses, the school fees, etc. Um, normally
around that time people would also be putting in their TPD claim and of course
this is something that's very up in the air at the moment.

Um, as you've said when you were speaking with Pia from 1
October, that TPD benefit is no longer available to police and, , I did a post
about that just, I just can't fathom either the, how this has happened, , in
terms of the people that are protecting us, these police officers. Not being
able to access this payment, which was, again, a security for doing the kind of
work that you do for putting your life on the line, and that the fact that you
cannot now receive this TPD, so Total and Permanent Disablement Benefit
payment, which was, just went towards making up that, that extra 25 percent
that is lost, and it meant that, you know, people could put some money on the
mortgage or just have that as a bit of a security blanket there.

Um, That's, that's going to be something that's really
difficult for police going forward.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. So in relation to what's current, so
before October 1, for someone that has gone off, , say this year, say, before,
before October 1st, , one of the questions I've, I've had is how do they get
that payment in particular?

And it's actually quite simple, really. It's probably one of
the most simple parts of the whole journey, I think. Um, but can you explain
that maybe a little bit?

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, sure. Cool. So, um, some lawyers will actually
make the TPD claim for their clients. It's not something that I do, um, where,
where I am, um, where I work for a firm called Bourke Legal, and we generally
recommend that our clients do it themselves.

And the reason is exactly what you said, Rosie, it is quite
simple. Um, it's about calling up AWARE, who is the superannuation fund and
saying, I'd like to make a TPD claim. I'd like to claim for this benefit. You
do need to have been off work for six months to be able to make the claim. So
there is that waiting period.

But after that, AWARE sends you the claim forms. There's one
for you to fill out, which is all just information that you would know. It's
your, your details, your employment history, your circumstances. And then
there's one form to be filled in by your GP. Who is signing off on the fact
that they believe that you are not able to return to work that you're
reasonably qualified to do by way of education, skills, training or experience.

And so for most police officers, that is as a police officer.
So the GP signs off on their form and then a psychiatrist needs to sign off on
the other. And that's another reason why it's important to have a psychiatrist
involved because Often it's the psychologists that do a lot of the in depth
work, and you've got quite a good relationship with, but unfortunately for the
TPD process, as they're not a doctor, they can't fill out that TPD form for
you.

So one from the GP, one from the psychiatrist. Send it all back
to AWARE with your form and they will then look at the TPD benefit. And again,
the reassurance there is that most of these TPD benefits have been getting
approved to date. The only time where you might encounter a bit of difficulty
is if you have some secondary employment or some study that you're looking at
doing that can make the waters a little bit murky.

But for most police, They've gone off and they are not looking
at, um, working or studying at that point in time. They're really just trying
to focus on their recovery. So those TPD benefits are being paid generally
within about six months from lodging the claim.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, I remember it being quite
quick. in relation to everything else, that was probably one of the.

One easiest and two quickest processes that I went through for
sure. And yeah, I just, Oh yeah. The episode that I did with Pia like I'm
fuming that they've taken this away for police officers, because I know that
there's a bit of a stigma attached to it where, you know, they call it the
mortgage bust or anything like that.

It's not that I think it's the. Psychologically, it's very
helpful to know that your family is still going to be okay while you are off
work, not earning money, um, and then that enables you to be able to focus on
your recovery.

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the main concerns, it's a
financial perspective.

People will say to me, I don't know if I can leave because I
don't know if we can afford it financially. Yeah. And I mean, again, that's a
question for them and their families and their treating practitioners, but. At
least if that TPD benefit is available, it goes some way to just making sure
that they've got that, that amount of money sitting there that they can draw on
if they need to, but with these changes coming up on 1 October, I mean, the
fact that that's not only not available through Police Blue Ribbon, but is also
what, from what we understand, not available from any other provider as well.

I mean, It just boggles the mind that that they can take that
away when there's something that when there's no alternative. It's not like you
can go and insure yourself in another from another superannuation fund. Yeah,
that's right. I think that's really important to point out because it's that's
why it was so good.

Rosie Skene: And that's how it was sold because, you know, no one else is
going to insure you because of the work that you do. And then now we're not
either because of the work that you do. Yeah.

Do you know much about the new, , the extra three years? Have
you been able to? It's so, no one does, I think.

Melissa Arndell: No, no one really knows exactly because there's still, there's
wording in, um, in the new documentation that is quite broad and quite vague.
Um, so the idea is that Rather than having those income protection payments at
75 percent going for a period of seven years, there's a possibility that they
can extend it up to 10 years.

And that's how it's been marketed through the Police
Association saying, look, this is a really great deal. You're getting that
extra three years. But, um, the reality is we don't know what, we still don't
really know what the definition is that you need to meet. There's some talk
about it being similar to a TPD definition.

And so what that means is that. At the end of the seven year
period, you potentially need to show that you still cannot return to work as a
police officer, but potentially any other work. And, um, that's quite a hard
definition to meet seven years post injury. Um, and a lot of people want to be
able to be working in some capacity at that period in time.

Um, and, and so the other issue with it, as you know, Rosie is,
is who is making the decisions in relation to the extension from seven years to
10 years, and that all seems to be being suggested that it will be done
internally, um, and how, how that. Can be independent is, um, is something that
we really need to wait and see.

So, yeah, look, we're speaking at a time where there is still a
little bit up in the air, but I guess if we work on the basis of. income
protection payments going for at least that seven year period. And then as, as
time goes on, we'll get a bit more of an idea as to what that will look like
going forward.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, for sure. Now, do police have to make application for
those income protection payments? Like say someone's just left in their very
first weeks. Do they have to make an actual application or does that all sort
of just happen behind the scenes? How does that work for people?

Melissa Arndell: There is an
application, but it's quite simple in terms of the process.

So Probably closest to the six month mark. Once someone has
been off for about six months, and particularly if their practitioners are
telling EML as the workers comp insurer and TAL as the income protection
insurer who starts to become involved about that time that a return to work is
unlikely, then, , The police officer will receive some paperwork to fill in, so
that might actually come from injury management, um, who will send it through.

And it will be similar to the TPD form in that it will be some
paperwork about what are your circumstances, um, what, who are your dependents,
all of that kind of information. And the other thing that I like to mention
here, Rosie, is is sometimes people will say to me, well, 75%, that's, that's
still not enough.

Like we're, we're mortgaged up to the eyeballs. We've got the
kids in school. So one thing that police officers can consider doing is using
their leave as a bit of a top up so that they can actually ensure that they're
receiving closer to that 100 percent for a period of time. And Again, that's
personal circumstances and personal preference as to whether or not they wish
to do that.

But some people would rather have that additional 25 percent
being paid out of their leave entitlements, especially if they perhaps have
some long service leave banked up, rather than having it paid in a lump sum
upon medical discharge. It just means that from a cash flow perspective and
budgeting perspective, it's a little bit easier to deal with that drop down to
the 75%.

Rosie Skene: And I can imagine if you do have a substantial amount of leave,
the tax implications in getting that in a lump sum could be pretty big as well.
Yeah, potentially, that's right. Yeah.

Look, there is one thing that I just haven't mentioned back on
the weeklies, and that's something that often police aren't aware of.

And that is that after the seven years of income protection
payments finishes, you are actually entitled to ongoing payments to the age of
68. Yes. So those payments are paid by EML as the workers compensation insurer.
So after the seven years, TAL as the income protection insurer has fulfilled
its obligation and it doesn't need to make any more payments.

But while ever you are still. Diagnosed with PTSD and that's,
that's different for people. I mean, you can, you can be even working, you can
be functioning, but you still have a PTSD diagnosis. So, while ever you're
still having that, , those PTSD symptoms, perhaps, and through to the age of
68, you'll receive an ongoing payment from EML and that might be around about
40, 000 a year.

Again, it depends on the number of dependents you have. So, if
you've got. kids um, that are still studying then you'll generally receive a
little bit more as opposed to if you're a single person. But those payments of
about 35 to 40 grand a year will continue on to the age of 68. Um, as long as
you're not earning more than what you were earning when you were working as a
police officer.

, it's showing that it's not as good and you know, and it's a
small payment, of course, but it might mean that for a police officer, they can
earn 70, 80 grand a year and still be walking away with 120 grand a year, which
it might be similar to the, um, to the amount that they were receiving when
they were employed as a police officer.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. And that means too, you know, with the skills that police
have, which is something that they doubt, , when we leave, , you can work part
time. You don't have to bounce back into a full time job, , immediately, you
know, you can, you can progress. , but I just wanted to ask, you did touch on
that pre injury income.

, now, does that sit Back in, say, when I left in 2018 or 2019
when I was discharged, or does that move up each with each of the increases?
So, you know, in 10 years time, is it what, say, a senior constable level 5
gets, if that's what you left at, at that year level?

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, it, so what happens
is the increments don't.

They're not taken into account. So if you are a senior
constable level four, you would stay as a senior constable level four, but it
does take into account increases and we can often argue if we're looking at
those kind of figures down the track for a police officer, we could argue,
okay, well, they were a senior constable, but they've been acting in the role
of sergeant and you know, they were doing quite a bit of overtime.

So something that might be 120 grand, we might be able to argue
in terms of 7, 10 years time would be closer to one hundred and sixty grand
taking into account over time. User pays promotion and that kind of thing.
Yeah. Yeah. Another great reason to have a good solicitor. Well, it just means
that, , if, for example, you are earning some money, if you're working in
another role, we, we want that to be.

That level to be as high as possible for you so that EML then
aren't taking their money out of out of those earnings.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic.
So to continue to get those payments though, are there any requirements of the
injured person?

Melissa Arndell: The only requirement really is in terms of ensuring that you're
continuing to have certificates of capacity completed.

And so often it will be your GP or your psychiatrist that's
filling those out. They can extend to three monthly rather than one monthly
after a period of time. So apart from that, and apart from unfortunately
sometimes needing to see an independent doctor from EML, um, just to confirm
that things are still as they have been in the past, there's no other in No
other requirement, and you will be able to receive those payments through to
the age of 68.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, while we're here on this subject, can we talk a little
bit about work injury damages? Because I think it's sort of something that we
have to think about. Moving forward. So, and that sort of ties in with that, ,
I meant part of the workers compensation.

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, so work injury damages claim
Rosie.

It's a claim for your loss of wages for the past and for the
future through to retirement age. It also encompasses superannuation. So, it's
not another, it's not an amount of money that isn't based on specific figures.
It is an amount of compensation that's payable based on your actual loss
because of your injury.

, To bring a work injury damages claim you need to be at least
15 percent whole person impairment. So we'll talk about that in a little bit as
well and what that means but if we just think there's a threshold that you need
to meet and that means that your injury needs to be severe enough to be at that
level.

So you need to get over that threshold to be eligible to bring
a work injury damages claim. And the other thing is you need to be able to
prove that the police force was negligent and it was that negligence that's
caused your injury. So for some people unfortunately they they may have been
telling the police that they are okay, they may have never stuck their hand up.

Um, and, and that does happen. I mean, you just, you don't want
to be the one that's saying I'm struggling. And so in those circumstances, it
can be a little bit harder to bring the claim because How do we then prove that
there was something the police could have done to have prevented your injury?
But, you know, there's a whole lot of things that, that the police should be
doing and they're often not.

There's, um, well checks that they should be doing in certain
departments. There's making sure that if you're attending a whole host of
events that are particularly traumatic, that there's some incident register
that records them and that they're saying to you and asking you, are you
actually okay? You haven't put your hand up, Is there something going on?

So there needs to be, there needs to be a, um, a way to prove
that the police force was negligent. So if you meet those two criteria, if
you're over 15 percent and there's some negligence on the part of the police
force, then you can bring that work injury damages claim. The claims can be a
drawn out process, unfortunately, Rosie.

Um, I've brought a few of them for police, but to be honest,
it's not something that we recommend a lot of the time where I work, and I'll
tell you why, and other lawyers will have different points of view, but from
our perspective, If you have a psychological injury and we're then asking you
to attend all of these medical appointments, attend a mediation, go to a
potential court hearing in the District Court of New South Wales, give
evidence, see all of this, a process that could take a couple of years that is
going to have an impact on your psychological health and you need to be sure
that that's something that you can and want to do.

If you do go through the process, then you lose your ongoing
entitlements to weekly benefits and medical expenses. So as soon as you settle
a work injury damages claim, you don't have any future entitlement to those.
And as I was explaining before, those Those entitlements can be quite, worth
quite a bit of money, and depending on your age as well, um, if, you know, if
you're potentially giving up 20, 30 years of ongoing payments and medical
expenses, you know, so you now need to pay for the cost of your psychiatrist
appointments, you need to cover inpatient treatment, or if you've had a
physical injury, you need to cover the cost of a back surgery, for example,
that can be quite a burden.

So. For a lot of our clients, we don't recommend going down
that process because of all of those things. As well, the legal fees associated
with it are very expensive because we're looking at a claim that runs over a
couple of years, but. For some people, Rosie, they want to get out of the
scheme. They don't want to deal with EML as the insurer anymore.

They would prefer to give away some of their entitlements to be
able to walk away with a lump sum payment and then move on with their lives.
And, you know, so for some people it is right for them. What we're finding is
that the amounts that are being paid and being offered to police officers, when
you compare them to their ongoing entitlements, They're not anywhere near
worth, um, making the claim and bringing it in that way.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Well, in my own personal circumstance, ,
definitely that's the case and I couldn't imagine after having to go through,
you know, all the things I've already been through to then bring a claim like
that and have to do everything you said, like, , go to court and, and fight for
that. Yeah.

And what would feel like proving your injury all over again? ,
I couldn't do it. Actually, I don't think I have the capacity to go through all
of that. I don't think it would be very conducive to recovery, either for
myself. So there's a lot to think about there. And I think for people, the
thing that's happening now, and it's so great that we're having conversations
with each other as police.

But there's an issue with it too. And that is that some people
are further ahead. Um, and they're trying to be as helpful as possible and
saying, don't forget about this. You need to do this. You need to do that. You
need to do that. And for someone that's been off for 3 weeks, that is just. So
overwhelming.

So overwhelming. Yes. and, you know, I say to friends that you
don't need to worry about that yet. That will happen later on. What you need to
worry about is, you know, going to your GP and getting your certificates and
seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist and just keep doing that. To get better.
And I love people, especially police, because we all sort of try and stick
together, especially when we're on the other side and help each other.

And it's so important that you've come on because I really want
you to explain all these things to people that, and work out, you know, where
they sit in that journey as well. Um, one question I did get, and it's from
someone that sort of left recently, and they're finding it very overwhelming
to To do all this by themselves, so pushing themselves to go and see their GP
every week or every three weeks.

And then in between that, every fortnight, they're seeing a
psychologist. Um, and at what point, you know, they're pushing themselves alone
and then they still fielding calls from work. Um, bosses calling, you know,
when are you coming back? Um, it's likely they probably won't be going back. ,
but they're not saying that, you know, they're saying, you know, well, as long
as I keep getting these certificates and my medical professionals are saying I
can't come back, then I'm not coming back.

Melissa Arndell: Yes. That's really difficult. , While dealing with that
psychological injury as well, all those other components and their questions,
like how, how can they get the help from a solicitor in relation to all that?
And when does a solicitor come on board? We have the whole gamut of clients
that we help. We have clients that come to us after a couple of weeks or even
before lodging the claim and saying, I think I need to go off, you know, can
you give me some advice around what that will look like?

And then we have clients that have Been out of the system for,
or been out of the police force, I should say, for a couple of years and now
hearing, Oh, um, apparently there's a few things I'm entitled to. Can you give
me some help about around that? Yeah, so it really doesn't matter and it's what
you're comfortable with.

Um, I agree though. I see that. I mean, everything that we've
spoken about so far, Rosie, it's complex. There's a lot of elements. And so
when you're asking someone that is suffering from PTSD to try and understand
this, um, when concentration and focus is generally an issue, you know, you're
probably having some issues with your memory.

, it's very hard to be able to navigate all of this by
yourself. And you're right, when you put all the appointments and everything
like that in there, it becomes a full time job trying to navigate it all. So
look, I think if you want some assistance, just ask. There are many law firms
that focus on first responders.

We, for example, have a claim checker on our website where you
can put in your details and we'll then contact you and get in touch and help
you navigate the process. But again, I think it's just about getting the
information. And if there's someone that can help you that, that deals with
this kind of thing day in, day out, I feel like that's a really good A good
path to go down.

, there's, there's no reason not to really, if you can get that
assistance, I think it helps.

Rosie Skene: What about, these are some things that I didn't know about and
that's the section 66 and section 67 claims in relation to those psychological
injuries. Can you talk about that?

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, sure. So, people have generally heard of them as Section
66 and 67 claims or whole person impairment claims. And we can make claims for
some compensation for both physical and psychological injuries. And it's really
just, it's not, we're not talking about huge amounts of money, um, you know, to
be frank, Rosie

but again, it's something that a police officer is entitled to.
So, talking about the psychological side of things, first of all, um, we can
have you assessed by an independent psychiatrist. Who is really just trying to
determine, not whether or not you've got PTSD, that's That's been sorted. Not
whether or not it was caused by work, again, as we've said, that's, that's
generally taken for granted.

It's about how your PTSD impacts you on a daily basis, on, on
your levels of functioning. And, you know, so it is things like your
concentration and ability to focus. Do you find that you can no longer read a
book, even though you used to be able to, now you kind of get halfway down the
page and you can't, you can't remember where you're up to?

Do you have issues with travel? Do you find it difficult to
travel Um, outside of your local area, has it had an impact on your
relationships with your, with your spouse, with your kids? Have you lost
friends? Um, and of course employability is another category in there, the fact
that you're unable to, to maintain employment because of your injury.

So, we send you off to see a psychiatrist who assesses you in
relation to that, and then they'll provide a report which says what level of
whole person impairment they believe you're at. And that level of impairment
equals a certain amount of compensation. And then on top of that, um, you're
generally able to make a claim for some Section 67 compensation which is for
your pain and suffering.

And so, for psychological injuries you need to be over 15
percent whole person impairment anyway, right? To get some compensation under
section 66. But then, assuming you're there, we can also make that claim for
pain and suffering. And that's just to go some way to, again, making a, um,
making it clear that your injury has had a big impact on yourself, on your
family, , and, and you, , you'll potentially have to live with this injury for
a little while.

So, the amounts of money I'm talking about might be between 40
to 60 grand tax free for a psychological injury. So, again, not huge amounts,
but. Something that you're entitled to and something that we can assist you
with. So, once we've got the report from our psychiatrist, you do need to
attend a psychiatrist from EML.

And then a lot of the time we're able to negotiate in terms of
what the payment is through to you. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. Thank you for
explaining that. That's one of the ones that I wasn't aware of. And that's the
thing, you don't know these things unless someone tells you. EML are never
going to say, would you like us to start this process for you?

We'll pay you some money.

Rosie Skene: Did you know, did you know there's
more money you could ask for?

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, exactly. But they're silent on that, which
of course I understand. But um, you can do the same thing with your physical
injuries as well, Rosie. Um, and. Often, we will be seeing police officers
mainly because of their PTSD, but when we get talking to them, they say, Oh,
actually, I've got a pretty bad back.

Um, that appointment's belt that's caused me some issues, or,
you know, I've, I've been struggling with my knees from all those foot pursuits
and wrestles, or there was a particular incident where I was involved in a
motor vehicle accident and I got whiplash and my neck's not right. So, we can
make claims for those injuries as well in a similar way, um, under section 66
and 67.

And the other important thing to note there, Rosie, is that if
you get some compensation for a physical injury, even 1 percent for a scar or,
you know, a couple of percentage points for a bad knee, you are then entitled
to medical expenses for life for that injury. And so that's another thing that
police often don't realize.

And we want to be able to show that if, if you've been injured
because of your policing career, that. EML are required to pay your medical
expenses. They're on the hook and not you. So if you do need physio, if you do
need injections or surgery down the track, it's them that's paying those bills.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, that's so important to know because you shouldn't have to be out of
pocket for something like that at all, which is it's great.

Melissa Arndell: Well, just on that, you want to talk about some medical
expenses that can be covered? Yeah. So, obviously, most people are aware of the
psychological expenses.

So, it might be that you need, um, your psycho, Psychologist
and psychiatrist appointments paid for inpatient treatment is another one,
which can cost tens of thousands of dollars. Obviously, we want EML to be
paying for that a few other interesting ones from a psychological perspective,
though, are dental expenses.

So, often people don't realise that. The fact that they're
grinding their teeth, the fact that they're breaking their teeth and needing
crowns, or perhaps they need a splint so that they're not doing that overnight.
Those expenses can be paid for by EML as well. And that's something that people
just often don't realize and you know, can be thousands of dollars in terms of
a dental bill.

So if Your psychiatrist can confirm that that teeth grinding,
um, and those kind of things that are going on have been caused by your PTSD,
then that's something that can be paid. And then other things, for example, um,
if you've got someone that recommends that you should be Heading to the gym
more, but perhaps you can't go to the gym because you find it difficult to be
in an area where there are other people around.

People have had gym equipment paid for, um, exercise bikes,
those kind of things, even bicycles to be able to get out in nature and do that
kind of thing. They're all things that can be paid for.

There's also a few other more strange ones, I guess, um, not
that they're not necessary at all, but some people like to go down the
medicinal cannabis route. That's something that, um, the insurer has paid for
on occasion. And even, um, some other things, for example, um, assistance dogs
can be paid for.

Due to PTSD and on physical injuries, we even had, um, there
was a case where someone asked for a thermo mix to be paid for. So that's those
thermal cookers and the, the idea was that she couldn't provide, um, she
couldn't cook meals for her family because of her physical injuries involving
her upper limbs.

So that was paid for also.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, that's fantastic actually. And
thinking outside the box a little bit as well. Yeah. I know, you know, I've
mentioned it in before, , my program, it's a online program for first
responders and veterans. It's based around, , yoga and mindfulness and breath
work that's been covered by EML, for someone as well.

So, yeah, I know of a treating psychologist that's recommended
your program actually. Yeah. And, um, and, and that's right. And I think you've
got a link on your website now that there's a PDF for people so they can send
it to a psychologist and get that recommended because, you know, I've, I'm
getting really good reviews and I, I hate, I'm not someone, I'm not very salesy
at all, but I do think it's a really great program.

And the reason for it is, is that people can do it by
themselves in their own home. For police, especially with PTSD, especially in
the early stages when there is that paranoia and you don't want to go and see
people. And you know, a lot of people hate everyone. Um, at, at that, that
those initial months and years, um, it's, it's really great that you can do
something for yourself, , and being in control of that journey, because all of
this stuff that we're talking about right now is very much out of your control.

And as police, we don't like that at all. Um, you know, going
give reliance on your GP and you're reliant on your psych and then you're
reliant on your solicitors and the insurers and and you just feel like you're a
bit of a pinball, you know, being popped over here and popped over there. , so
that's something that when I created that program is something that I really
felt police needed to be empowered more in their recovery journey.

So there's, there's lots of different avenues that people can
take in relation to having certain medical expenses paid for for sure. And I
think that's so good. Yeah, look, I agree.

Melissa Arndell: I think, um, that's what I see as
well. It's difficult enough to, to be leaving the house, let alone, you know,
going to potentially a yoga class with all these other people and feeling like,
yeah, I mean, I feel like that sometimes.

Are they judging me? Am I doing this right? So just having that
ability to do that from your own home and if you can have the insurer pay for
it. A bonus. Um, if there are issues with the insurer paying for medical
expenses, as a lawyer, we can challenge those decisions as well. And we have
some, some good, um, good success in doing that.

So, you know, if there's something that you need and it's
outside your ability to pay for it, um, definitely look into having the insurer
pay.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, that's great. What about, , expenses in relation to having a
solicitor, you know, act on your behalf? What does it look like and how is that
paid?

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, so EML are required to pay our legal fees in relation to, for
example, the section 66 and 67 claims.

They're also required to pay for the medical reports associated
with that. So when I was talking before about sending Someone to an independent
psychiatrist. As long as there is a level of impairment out of that report,
then EML will pay that report fee as well. Um, the work that we do, we try to
take quite a holistic approach in that we are advising in relation to quite a
lot of things.

So we don't just, for example, do the section 66 and 67 claim
and that's it. We sit down with our clients and we have a really good chat
initially. We've got a spreadsheet where we plug in their specific details and
say, This is what things are going to look like for you. We give advice about
the TPD side of things, even if we're not lodging the claim for them.

Um, and you know, we talk about medical discharge and are
generally just available to answer any questions. So for our clients, we do
have a fee that is payable for our services, but that comes out of any
settlement. So it's, it's almost like a no win, no fee type arrangement where
unless the police officer receives some compensation of a certain level, then
they don't need to pay our fees.

And is that with the 66 and 67 payment? It encompasses
everything. So there's, yeah, yeah. So there's, it doesn't include the TPD or
anything, but if we do get some compensation, like you say, for section 66 and
67, then our fee becomes payable. But it's, it's one fee only. And then, you
know, we can run the other claims and you don't need to pay it again.

Yeah, fantastic.

I suppose the one thing that I want to just say, and it's not
legal advice, it's just from my experience, is that often we'll see police and
they're itching to return to work in some capacity. They feel like they're not
being valuable members of society if they're not working. Obviously, to do that
role, your work ethic is pretty high.

And to be out of the workforce, it's, it's really difficult.
You know, it's, um, potentially changing the family dynamic at home and all of
those kinds of things. , but. What we see is that if you can take probably a
good couple of years, a couple, like two years to be out of the force and just
focus on your recovery, we find that those people that do that have a much
better next chapter than those that try and rush back.

And one of our directors, Brendan Bourke he always uses the,
the sport analogy. It's like, you know, if you've injured your knee playing
rugby and you think, Oh, I'll be right. I'll just go back. And you know, you go
back too early, then you really stuff it. And it's the same kind of thing. It's
just acknowledging that everything that we've spoken about today, there is that
safety net there for you financially.

So use that as the opportunity to really focus on getting the
treatment that you need so that. Your next chapter, like you say, Rosie, when
you've got that medical discharge date and you think, okay, what's next for me?
That can be a really positive experience. And, you know, you're always going to
be dealing with the PTSD symptoms.

Unfortunately, like this, this is something that will be with
you. But if you do take the time initially to really, you know, Put in the work
and, and just focus on doing what you need to do. And don't worry quite yet
about, about rushing back to work. We seem to notice that those, those clients
have a much better next chapter.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, that's fantastic advice because I know these processes
that we have to go through can be a couple of years. Hmm. And it really, ,
does, um, I think delay the. Yeah, , journey of becoming, you know, that post
traumatic growth or, you know, moving through your PTSD because there's so much
other stuff that you're worried about that you can't, you don't have the time,
energy or capacity to deal with your PTSD.

So it's, it definitely is a process and that it does take quite
a while.

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, and I think people initially they, I might say that to them and
I think, I don't need two years. That's a really long time. And then you speak
to them around that mark and we've kind of, we've wrapped up everything up, all
the claims are paid, um, and they're ready to start looking into new things and
they go, okay, it actually did take that long.

Yeah, you know, I think again, it's about managing expectations
because if you do realise that it is unfortunately a bit of a process, then
you're not. You've just got that understanding and you're not trying to rush
back before you're ready.

Rosie Skene: That's right. That's right. And then with that line
in the sand of, you know, your medical discharge and your claims being
finalised and you're not having to deal with so many different people, that's
when you, you know, your time frees up a little bit more, , and you can focus
on doing things that are good for you and good for your health and, and moving
forward.

And then after a little bit longer, , you can start considering
doing some form of work. If that's what you want to do. So it's really
important, I think, just to be kind to yourself, if you've gone through that
journey and to understand that there is a process. And unfortunately, you have
to go through it, but it will be better on the other side.

Melissa Arndell: Yeah, I agree. And look, there's so many organizations as well
now, Rosie, as I'm sure you know, that provide assistance with that. What would
it might look like if you do go back? I mean, Emerge & See provide a lot of
assistance in terms of programs and things that you can do. There's beyond the
badge that looks specifically at career transition.

There's organisations that look at specific things, so cyber
security for police is a big burgeoning area where they're saying, look, we
understand that police have these skills and if they're interested in this, we
can help you transition. So there's things that are available, but I think you
just, you just got to focus on your recovery first.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much.

Look, I did just want to say as well that I appreciate what
you're doing so much because it's big, what you're doing, . But, , you know,
like, I just think. It is really valuable because there aren't enough
conversations.

I mean, I've got a lot out of it. Like I said, as a lawyer .
So, yeah, I do. Thank you for doing this. I think it's really important work.

Rosie Skene: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And I think, , It's just something that I
never had, you know, and I was, I'm one of those people that just called, , I
spoke to Brendan Bourke a couple of years ago and I'm like, Oh, so is there
things that I can, is it, am I doing this wrong?

Like, have I done this wrong this whole time? Cause one of my
friends said, Oh, you know, did you get your TPD? This is back in 2022. I said,
what are you talking about? What's that? Are you kidding? You've been out for
years. And I'm like, and then my My stomach just dropped and I'm like, Oh my
God, I could have helped my family.

Yeah. Um, it scared the shit out of me. Really?

Melissa Arndell: Yeah. I had a
similar conversation, Rosie, with someone else who'd been out for years and
years and, um, like not a client, but just an acquaintance and similar thing.
And she's like, I've never applied for this. I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. And
that, that. That fear of, have I done myself out of something?

You know, have I done myself a disservice? And it's just
because of lack of information. So the more we can have these conversations,
and at least people know generally what their entitlements are, I think it's so
important. Actually, can I ask you a question? So just in relation to the
claims, what if you've been out for a few years?

And you're only listening to this now, or you've spoken to
someone and you realize, I actually haven't made a claim. Can you go and do it
years later? Yeah, absolutely. Look, I mean, there are some times it's going to
be a little bit more difficult if there has been a period of time, just
depending on what's happened.

But like, physical injuries, it's a great one. Often people
won't have notified of their bad back, bad knees, et cetera. And it's not until
we're speaking and they'll say, Oh, actually I am really struggling in those
areas. We can still bring claims, even if they haven't been notified. Even if
it's years later and we still have success with the psychological injury.

If you haven't brought a section 66 and 67 claim, but have been
out for a while, it's really just looking at, you know, how, how do you think
you might. fit into the relevant criteria. And it might be a little bit more
difficult if you have returned to work because that means you'd be assessed
lower on that particular employability category.

But you know, it's something that's worth the conversation
because again, if that's some money that you can have in your pocket, um,
through going through the process, it's worth having the conversation and
seeing if you're still entitled. Yeah. And people can call a solicitor like
yourselves at Bourke Legal.

For no charge to have a consultation like that. Yeah, that's
exactly right. So we'll always do an initial consultation free of charge and
give you some advice about what you might be entitled to and what it would look
like if you'd like to retain us. And then you can make a decision as to whether
or not that's something you need assistance with.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, fantastic. And so that's what everyone should do. If they
haven't already done it is to give either Bourke Legal or your solicitor of
choice a call and have a chat and just find out what your options. You have
options and you need to know what they are. That's so important.

Melissa Arndell: Yeah. Information is just power.

I mean, when you've got that knowledge, when you know. What
you, you can potentially do. It just, it just makes you feel like, okay, I know
what my options are and I know where I can go to move forward. Yeah. It makes
everything a lot clearer. That's for sure. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's not
always about the money, but it's about, you know, your whole life and how you
can move forward really well.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Thank you for coming on. I've
appreciated this so much. And I, I'm so grateful because I don't want people,
especially those ones leaving now, to be in the same group that I was in and I
just had no idea. No one talked about anything. Um, it's all very hush hush and
I really fumbled my way through the whole process.

So thank you so much for explaining it in such a beautiful way.

Melissa Arndell: Pleasure. It was really nice to be on. Thanks so much

Rosie Skene: I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, make sure to hit subscribe so you
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Your support means the world. My name is Rosie Skene join me
again next week for another empowering and positive episode of Triumph Beyond
Trauma. Until then, be kind to your mind and trust in the magic of your
consistent and positive efforts. Triumph Beyond your trauma is closer than you
think. Have the best week.