Rosie SkenE:

Hello
and welcome to episode 45 of Triumph Beyond Trauma. Today I have an incredible
guest joining me, Justyn Backhouse. Justyn is a former New South Wales police
officer who dedicated 25 years to law enforcement, serving in both highway
patrol and the elite PolAir Unit, where he was involved in high stakes missions
ranging from high speed pursuits to daring rescues.

His career marked by courage and resilience also exposed him to
the psychological toll that first responders often carry in silence. Diagnosed
with PTSD in 2021. Justyn turned to writing as part of his healing journey
penning Hidden Scars, a powerful and candid memoir that reveals the hidden
realities of policing and the profound impacts trauma can have on mental
health.

Beyond his policing career, Justyn has become a passionate
advocate for mental health awareness, especially within the first responder
communities. His work now focuses on breaking down stigma, fostering
understanding, and offering hope to those facing similar struggles. Justyn's
book, hidden Scars is an absolute must read.

I loved learning not only about his journey navigating PTSD,
but also about the incredible operations PolAir is involved in. All from
Justyn's raw and honest perspective. I

do want to offer a content warning for this episode. We cover a
lot of ground, including an intense critical incident that Justyn was involved
in.

So please take care of yourself while listening. Feel free to
pause and come back to it whenever you need. Justyn's book, kitten Scars is
available from today, and trust me, you will not regret grabbing a copy. Now
let's dive into this powerful conversation with Justyn Backhouse.

Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores
journeys of resilience and hope. I'm Rosie Skene a yoga and breathwork teacher
and founder of Tactical Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mom to
three beautiful kids and a medically retired New South Wales police officer
with PTSD. I understand the challenges of navigating mental health in the first
responder and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've
confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness
and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together we'll
uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter, more
fulfilling life.

Whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or
just a friendly reminder that you're not alone. Triumph Beyond trauma has got
your back. You matter and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life
starts right here.

Justyn. Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma. I'm so, so excited to
have you here after reading your book. How are you?

Justyn Backhouse:

Thanks Rosie.

Thanks for having me. I'm good, thanks.

Rosie Skene:

Awesome.
Um, so usually I just run with, uh, where people got started from and their
childhood. So do you wanna have a chat about that?

Justyn Backhouse:

Sure. , pretty average childhood. I, , I grew up in Sydney, , near Hornsby. ,
got one brother. He's, he's younger than me. , yeah, mum and dad, brother.

, grew up riding BMX bikes and playing in the bush and doing
all the good things. , pretty average childhood. , didn't really do great in
school. I had average marks. I didn't really work too hard in high school and
so, , didn't really know exactly where I wanted to go, but, , but yeah, I
think, I think in the background I had this, had this idea about joining the
police.

. And that, that goes back to my childhood. , I think my
earliest memory was of a policeman coming to our, to our primary school and
coming to see us, and , and we're all sitting there on the floor looking up at
this man and he's telling us all about these great things that he was doing.
And then he went and unloaded his revolver and passed it around the class and
his handcuffs, and we all got to hold it and have a look at it.

And I just thought for a 6-year-old me, that was just awesome.
Yeah. , I can't believe he did it now.

Rosie Skene:

The
eighties were a wild time though.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was different times. Um, so yeah, so I think that
made impression on me and, you know, when you are young, a lot of kids
gravitate towards wanting to be a fireman or a policeman or something like
that.

, and I think that was in the back of my mind. , but yeah, it
wasn't until after I left high school that I, that I really got serious about
it. I went to uni for a year. , didn't love what I was studying. Uh, it was,
it, I found it a bit boring. So yeah, I was working part-time. , went to tafe,
did a couple of years there in business, and then, , I decided to drop an
application in for the police.

, so, yeah, and that, that was interesting 'cause my parents
weren't super supportive. , I mean, they, they were supportive of the police,
but I think they were a bit worried about me and being in that sort of
situation. , you know, the risks involved. So, yeah, it was an interesting
dinner conversation. , so 97, 19 97 I joined and went down to the academy in
May, , class two 70.

And, , yeah, it was a lot of fun though. I think there was
about 200 in the class. , so 10 subclasses, , yeah, good times. I was there in
winter and Goldman in winter. Yeah. Not,

Rosie Skene:

I
started in May as well. It's horrible. Yeah.

Justyn Backhouse:

So
you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Like the frost on the grass and the Oh
god, it's brutal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, but, but yeah, had a good time down
there and, , made some friends and,, my first, my, , student posting was to
Hornsby, so I went there for a month, and then came back and marched out in
November nine, seven and went to Castle Hill. So that was my first station.
Yeah. Nice. .

Castle Hill was a bit quieter. , back in the day we were on the
same channel as, as, , Parramatta Mary Lands Granville, and they were all
busier that you could hear the jobs going off, all the urgent jobs going off.
And our, our patrol was a little bit slower, but we had lots of open areas,
rural roads. Um, you know, we, we went all the way up to nearly Wiseman's
Ferry, so it's a big patrol.

So a lot of driving
around and it was, it was fun. , you know, a few, a few interesting,
interesting times, , with some characters in those days. , yeah.

So I, I went to Rose
Hill for a few months in general duties. Um, I had a, had a rotation down
there.

Um, it was, uh, super busy and heaps of fun. Uh, and when I was
there I actually, , got in my, was in my first, , on duty crash, , which was
just crazy. I was working one night shift. , I was a passenger in a sedan and
we were going to a back up a car crew. I don't remember what the job was, but
we were urgent.

, we were driving pretty quick and we came around the corner
and the, we were just absolutely flying and the front of the car clipped the
median strip. We went sideways sliding across the road. I did not have a clue
what was going on. I was just totally panicked. Um. We hit a curb, began to
roll over the car rolled several times.

Um, you know, there's bags and equipment and torches and
everything rolling around in the cabin, glass shattering, and we smashed into
the front of a house. So, , yeah, that, that was, that was my first
introduction , to probably, , danger at Work. And I think before then I had
this real. , a feeling of vulnerability.

You know, when you're starting the cops, you feel like, oh,
nothing's gonna happen. We'll put the lights on and people are gonna get out of
the way and we'll be fine and I'll be fine. And after that I was like, wow,
this is crazy. It, it really rattled me, , for a little while. So, but I, you
know, I got, , just minor injuries.

I was really lucky. Um, so I finished up that posting, went
back to Castle Hill, and then not even six months later I was in another crash.
Yeah. Again, yeah, another night shift. , passenger, , we, yeah, we were going
to another urgent job. We ran off the road, skimmed a telegraph pole and with
the roof and, and rolled and ended up in a.

In a paddock off the side of the road. It was actually on, on
Sunny Holt Road near, , Blacktown. But back in the days when Sunny Holt Road,
there was actually a two lane road, believe it or not. And we went up this
embankment, skimmed this telegraph pole. We've landed in the paddock and you
know, all the lights come on and the airbags have gone off, and it's just real
quiet.

And then I look out and there's cows looking at us in the
paddock just looking at the car. I'm just, this is just crazy. Um, so yeah,
like having the two crashes close together, did make me a bit wary of doing
urgent duties. , so I, I think it definitely slowed me down for a while. ,

Rosie Skene:

did you
say you were the passenger at both times as well?

Mm-hmm.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. So
how did, how did that go? , trusting your offside as

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. Not good. Not good. I, I, um, yeah, I had a bit of a drama for a while. I
would, I remember soon after that I was in a car and we had to go to a job and
as soon as the sirens came on, I just. I, I felt a bit of panic. Um, and yeah,
I was definitely uncomfortable because it all happened so fast, so violent, um,
high speed, and, and it was that feeling of, I think it was my first
introduction to the helplessness feeling like that's associated with PTSD.

So I, I was a passenger. I had no control over what was
happening. I was just holding on for my life. And I honestly thought the first,
in the first crash that I might die. That's how serious I thought it was,
because I had never been in anything like that before my life. Um, it was, it
was so fast. And yeah, so it really, it really scared me. .

Rosie Skene:

So I, I
had an, I don't know if I've spoken about this, when I was quite, before I got
my second hook, I was involved in an accident in a on duty, , and wrote off a
police car and I was driving.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Um, and
it can happen so fast. And my offsider that I was with, he, , obviously was a
passenger and he knew that I'd lost control before I did, which was Oh wow.

Yeah. We were in a country dirt road, , urgo to an accident. Of
course. Yeah. Going to an accident, had one on the way. . And it just happens
so, so fast.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah,

Rosie Skene:

true. ,
and it's so scary and, , I was pregnant at the time, but I didn't know.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. Um,

Rosie Skene:

yeah, so
it was, it was pretty traumatic, but I just remember, , going to the hospital
afterwards, we were both fine.

Not neither of us were
injured or anything like that. , probably my pride a little bit, . And then two
days later, like rushing to get to the doctor to get, , back to work like as
soon as I could. I didn't Yeah. And no one asked me if I was okay, like
physically, yeah, you are okay. You know, is your neck okay?

All that sort of stuff.
Mm-hmm. But there was no mental health questioning Yeah. Whatsoever. And it
took me such a long time to feel comfortable. I think still, like there's still
something in me and I only had one accident. ,

Justyn Backhouse:

yeah.

Rosie Skene:

That I
don't quite trust other people driving, even though it was me that had the
accident.

Yeah. So I can't imagine how you would've gone, , having so
many. Yeah, it

Justyn Backhouse:

definitely, yeah, it definitely affected me and even years later when I was in
the highway patrol, , and you know, some people you trust more than others, ,
but I know sitting in the passenger seat of highway cars, , there were times
when I would get quite nervous years later.

, just that feeling of safety. . Yeah, I, I rushed back too. I
was like, you know, remember when we did eight hour shifts and it was seven, a
block of seven night shifts. And so I, the, both the crashes happened, , on a
night shift. And I went to the doctor both times, my doctor and said, Hey, I'm,
I'm okay.

I am fine. I'm, , I just had this happen and I rushed back to
work. I, I might've missed a shift the first time. , and I, but then I went
back. I was like, I'm not taking time off. Yeah. I, I didn't wanna show the
guys that I was beaten. I was like, no, I'm fine. Throwing me back in. Um, that
was just how you were?

, I don't know. It seemed crazy. Now. It does seem

Rosie Skene:

crazy. I
think I've actually written that down. Like, that seems crazy to me now that
Yeah, you didn't even consider. Any mental health repercussions at all? No. No.

Justyn Backhouse:

Um,
yeah, I didn't, and I didn't have any counseling. I didn't want any counseling.
I wouldn't have known about getting any counseling.

Um, that was not something that was discussed back then, like
as, you know. Yeah. So I continued in gs , I was in GDS for, I only did about
two and a half years before I went to highway. , but standard sort of jobs. Um,
I I, I remember another, thing that happened to me in, in gds, actually, my,
probably one of my first death messages.

Um, and you know, it's never, it's never a pleasant job. I
don't know of any cop that would ever put their hand up to go and do a job like
that. , but, um, we had a fatal, a double fatal crash. A couple of young guys
were, were killed. , after leaving a pub. And we went around to the house. It
was after midnight.

We went around to the house of the parents of one of the, one
of the young people that had died. And, I was working with an older guy, senior
constable, and I said, look, I'll do this job, , I want to get experience. I
was very junior in probably a few months in, , and, , knocked on the door, ,
man opened lights come on.

And I just froze. Uh, and I said, okay, uh, uh, we come in.
Yeah, then the, the wife came down the stairs. Meanwhile, I'm just looking
around seeing photos on the wall of family and people, and it just hit me. And
I couldn't, like, I froze. I froze. , and I , felt terrible about it. 'cause my
job was to deliver this death message, , which is this incredibly, , difficult
but important role.

Um, and I. I didn't know what to say. All of a sudden I felt
like an intruder in their home. Their, their son had been killed. I was waking
them up to tell them that they weren't gonna see their son again. And I, I know
the gravity of it, I think just hit me and , so my, my partner took over and he
delivered it, and he was, he was great.

And I, I remember afterwards just thinking, feeling shame and
feeling like, well, I couldn't do that job. And I felt I had really knocked me
for six. , I went on to do plenty of death messages, but that one got under my
skin. Yeah. , and it could have been 'cause of the age of them. , but it, yeah,
that was just one of those jobs that, that stood out in my mind.

Rosie Skene:

What
did, what did your, , senior officer say to you afterwards? Like, did he talk
about it with you or go through it at all? I think he

Justyn Backhouse:

did. Yeah. I think he just said, Hey, you know, just next time. And he, he was
all right about it. Like he wasn't critical. , 'cause we also had to take them
to the hospital to ID the body and, and all that.

, yeah, I think I was just overwhelmed with it. Yeah. , I felt
a little bit emotional. , and I wasn't expecting it. I, I really was totally
unprepared for the amount of the gravity of it and the emotions that I would
feel knocking on that door. I went into it probably pretty blind thinking, oh,
it's fine.

I'm just gonna tell 'em that their son's been killed, , not
having any experience and not having any appreciation for what I was walking
into. Yeah. , so I don't know that any amount of training could prepare you for
that as a 22-year-old, , police officer walking up to a door, knocking on the
door in the middle of the night, , it's, yeah, it's one of those things.

Yeah. That's brutal. So yeah, I went into highway, , in 2000, ,
before the Olympics and , I loved it. I loved working out by myself. Driving
around. , we were not heavily tasked so I could basically go wherever I wanted
in the patrol. I loved chasing work and , had some good times there. , and, but
lots of accidents.

We had lots of, lots of, , crashes in our patrol 'cause we had
all those country roads. Um, some fatals. , quite a few, , and other jobs. ,
yeah, it was, it was interesting, interesting time. , the thing about highway
is a lot of people don't realize, although you're not general duties and you're
not first response as such, you're still going to jobs, you're still turning up
and backing up other crews.

And we would go to, to holdups , or bulk domestics or, you
know, brawls all sorts of jobs. , I remember going to a shooting was a reporter
of shots fired. We turned up at a house, , my partner and I and , you get these
calls and half the time it's fireworks, you really don't think there's gonna be
anything in it Anyway, we got to the door, there'd been a couple of calls about
gunshots.

Get to the door, knock on the door, no answer. Walk inside and
there's a revolver line on the carpet in the middle of the floor and they're
like, oh, great. So it's guns out. , and there's blood, blood splatter, blood
trail up the, up the hallway. And I thought, oh God, like what is this? So
we're going up, down the hallway, clearing the rooms.

I'm thinking, is there a shooter in the house? What's going on?
You heart's pumping. Get to the room in the end. And there was a lady on the
floor, she'd had a gunshot wound to her shoulder. Um, so she was in a bad way.
I turned around, went, cleared the rest of the house, and my partner started on
the first aid.

, she survived, and ended up being a self-harm incident. ,
attempted self self-harm. So. That was quite confronting. , yeah, you just an
example of you, you really don't know what is going to wait you, when you
answer these jobs and you go to houses and, and that sort of thing.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Which is like so exciting at the start.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

And then
like for me, I was always sort of general duties, but you know, dabbled in a
few other things. Mm. That was the thing that sort of tipped me over the edge
is was that exact thing. Yeah. Yeah. Sound exciting at the start was like, oh,
I just dunno what's gonna happen today.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. That, that's the appeal, but I reckon, um,

Rosie Skene:

hundred

Justyn Backhouse:

the
unknown.

Um, and, and you live for the action when you start, you know,
you're young and you're full of bravado and you just want to go to the urgent
jobs. You want the double beepers. You want, , to get in the action. , and so
yeah, it was, it was fun and you just, those busy shifts where you bounce from
job to job to job, and it's great.

You know, the time goes quickly and yeah, having heaps of fun
if you're in a good team. , I had a great team, real good hard workers, young
people. Like, it was, it was good fun.

Rosie Skene:

What,
what drew you to Highway Patrol?

Justyn Backhouse:

, I
always liked driving. I always loved cars and, and that sort of thing. The
appeal for me was being out on the road Yeah.

Um, out by myself on the road, driving around. And, , and also
it was a break from general duties. , I don't think I could have stayed in
general duties long term. , I'm, I've got an enormous amount of respect for
people that do I, I. Was frustrated. I didn't have the patience in the end, I
don't think.

, but yeah, , I wanted to be proactive. I wanted to have my own
time, and I wanted to have the freedom to get out , and drive around and find
work. , and that really ticked that box. , so , as a young cop, it was a great
job. , so , that was awesome. Um, was involved in a lot of, like, went to bush
fires, a lot of bush fires, um, events, major events like that in highway.

Um, went to Cronulla riots. , we were very mobile and that was
one of , the best parts of it. You could respond, you could go wherever you
wanted. Um, and there was, there was no issue with that.

I think, yeah, I didn't realize, , I think at the time stuff
was creeping up on me a little bit. , like you'd go to jobs, fatal accidents
and stuff, and you'd sort of just do the job and try and push it behind you
and, , 'cause like we said, we, you didn't talk about mental health in those
days.

, and so we just, we just kept on going. , but I think, , in
the back right ground, in the back of my mind, it was starting to accumulate
and it was starting to add up. . And , and is that,

Rosie Skene:

is that
something that you noticed at the time or is it just sort of now looking back
that you can No, looking back

Justyn Backhouse:

now, I don't think I did at the time.

I, I know there was some jobs that rattled me. Yeah. , but you
just, you got on with it and the next shift or you, you were fine and you, and
that was that. But definitely some of those earlier jobs have come back to
haunt me. , and that's funny how the brain holds onto stuff like that for
years. Yeah. , and you think you're fine.

Like you think you've processed it and it was way back in your
memory in it, but it just comes back up again. , so I had a great time in
highway. I ended up doing about seven or eight years in highway. and then I,
um, got the opportunity to go to, , PolAir, , for apec. They were taking on
additional crew.

And, , so it was a, , section 66, a temporary, . Transfer and,
, I got the chance to go there and be trained up , as a TFO, , crew on, on
aircraft. And that was great. I loved it. being able to fly, I never thought
I'd get a job like that , and, you know, be able to go there. , it was a really
small unit.

It was only about 70 people there, 70 staff all up. , so I, I
flew there. , during apec, , we were doing motorcades covering, supporting
dignitary protection, , in addition to all the other regular jobs we were
doing. , you know, the search and rescues, the missing people, the, , patrol
stuff. , it was great fun.

So, , yeah, , PolAir was, was amazing. The, the training was,
was incredible. . Underwater helicopter, underwater escape training. So, you
know, we train by getting in this little, , cage and be lowered into a swimming
pool. And then , the, you are in there with your mates and the cage spins
around 360 degrees.

You're upside down, you're wearing blackout goggles. You've
gotta try and escape, swim , out of the cage, and it stimulates a ditching
helicopter in the ocean. , stuff like that was just, just incredible. , yeah,
so it was a steep learning curve, but lots of fun. , and got to travel the
state. I reckon one of the best parts of, of working at PolAir , was traveling
the state, , supporting, , local police , and specialist commands, , all over
in a massive range of jobs.

Um, yeah, it's good fun.

Rosie Skene:

. So you
only got to have a seccondment there for a little while, didn't you? And then
you had to Yeah,

Justyn Backhouse:

, I
went there, um, so it was a section 66, so I had to give up my, , position at
my old command, and I went there. It ended up being about nine months there.

, and I was hoping to get a full-time position thereafter, but,
, there wasn't a, there was only a couple of slots, so I had to go on a waiting
list, so I went back to high wagon and cooled my heels for another 18 months.
And then, and , yeah, and so then I went back 2009. I went back, , permanently,
so.

Oh,

Rosie Skene:

nice.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

What was
your favorite part

Justyn Backhouse:

of,

Rosie Skene:

do you
reckon? Um,

Justyn Backhouse:

PolAir. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Justyn Backhouse:

Rest. Uh, I'd say doing rescues and stuff like that. Um. Uh, flying out,
getting a job, like a search tasking, flying off into some remote area of the
state. , you know, it's just three people, a helicopter. You've got your
coordinates of where you're going and you've just go off there and you've got a
plan.

This search, and, , you di you're meeting the local police. ,
you are flying over terrain that's just so varied and so remote, often and so
rugged. You know, seeing these beautiful places that you , wouldn't normally go
to. , and then if you've, if you're lucky and it all comes together, you find
the missing person, , and you can help, , rescue them.

And that's just the most incredible feeling, , to get that
result. . Yeah, I, I'll never forget flying out into some of these communities
and you'd get the call, , it could be anywhere, , in the state and you'd fly
out there and there's a local couple of local police there, maybe the rescue, ,
coordinator, search coordinator.

And, and you know, the families are there and they're looking
for , their loved one. And it's really personal. Like, it, it feels really
intimate. 'cause often it's, there's small communities. There might be one man
police stations or small police station. They know a lot of the people in town.
It's really personal.

, and it, it was really, I, I really liked being able to come
in and help those communities, , and bring that, bring those resources in. And
we didn't always get a good result. , you know, sometimes I. For whatever
reason, , we either couldn't find them or we found them and it was too late.

And that was, you know, that was part of it. , but , at the
very least, you were able to bring your resources to a situation that was
really quite difficult. , being up in the air in the helicopter, you got such a
good vantage point. Uh, we could search massive areas and there's, so, it's so
much safer than often sending people into the bush.

, especially in rugged terrain where you got cliffs and all
sorts of hazards. , so yeah, we could, we could really, , add some value to
those sort of jobs. So I really liked that. Yeah. And I also liked getting
outta the office away from the bosses. Away from the bosses, just like, that's
it, you're just gone for the day or maybe a couple of days.

Just doing your job, you're really answering to no one. You're
just self-managing and it's just, just great work.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. So yeah, I went for a, , well I was sort of like three quarters, three of your
book. We went for a bush walk the other day. Yeah. With some local waterfalls.
Yeah. And I was just looking up like once we'd got there and I was sort of
looking up and I'm like, oh, after reading, you know, about how you did your
rescues and all that sort of stuff and how tricky it actually is.

I never, you know, yeah,
of course it's tricky. But I didn't realize how tricky until I was reading your
book and I was just looking around going, oh my God. Like this would be
actually really hard to get someone out of here if something happened. 'cause
there's always, you know how kids are like jumping off waterfalls and all that
sort of stuff and Yeah.

Um. And my husband and I are always quite aware of it. And then
looking around, I'm like, oh, wow, this would actually be really, really tricky
to do that. So, yeah. Yeah.

Justyn Backhouse:
hats offl to you guys.

We worked a lot with rescue and places like the Blue Mountains
where they've got their own part-time rescue up there. Um, those guys are out
there and, and they know the area, like the back of their hands. They're,
they're local experts, but there's a lot of places that it might be a three
hour walk in, um, and you get, they get to the person and the person might have
a, a sprained ankle or they might just be exhausted or hypothermic or what have
you.

, and there's sometimes we can get the me the ambulance
helicopter in, if it's a medical, , they'll go in and that's their job. But
other times it might be just a case of, Hey, we need to get a couple of police
in there. We need to get someone out. , and that's where we step in and, . Can
certainly save a lot of time.

And, , yeah. Yeah. , it's really, but , it does get quite
technical. Um, yeah, it's, it's quite interesting work doing all the winching
stuff.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
You, , you were deployed for Strikeforce Durkin, I remember that. I remember
all the cops having to go out after that. Yeah,

Justyn Backhouse:

yeah,

Rosie Skene:

yeah.
How was that for you?

Were you there for a long time?

Justyn Backhouse:

So
Malcolm Naden? Yeah. , I was there for a week and then another week later on,
and then a couple of days, so we were doing week rotations. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I
flew up there the first time on Christmas day on 2011 I think it was. And, um,
yeah, so, you know, I mean, you know what it was like, it was a basic camp and,
and you know, had all the tactical police up there and it was really
interesting work actually, because they sort of kept getting reports of.

Items being stolen from remote cabins and yeah. And they had
little sightings from fire, , bush cams and things like that. And like they
thought they knew he was in some sort of area, but it was still a massive
search area. , and so we flew up there and then we would get a briefing every
morning and we would take the TAU guys out , and drop them in at various, ,
huts.

, there's so many little huts and sheds , and things up there.
We'd drop them in and they'd go in and search, do an entry, search the premises
and make sure he wasn't there. And then we'd fly off to another place and, and
we also flying detectives around , and stuff like that. So yeah, , it was
interesting work.

Um, yeah, really interesting work and beautiful part of the
state. , I wasn't there when he was caught, like that was some months later. ,
but I deployed a few times on that job. Um. And it was really valuable, , from
the point of working away from base so you don't have all the resources. And we
had fuel organized and we had a place to sleep and that, and they were giving
us our food, but we had to manage ourselves.

,so it, it was really
good. It was really good experience. , it was an interesting job too.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
It, it seemed to go for a really long time. I remember like month and month.
Oh,

Justyn Backhouse:

it
did? Yeah. And like said

Rosie Skene:

like you
sort of kept missing them as, as well, I guess. ,

Justyn Backhouse:

there were a few close calls. I, I think there was a couple of close calls
where they got dropped at, police, got dropped at a premises, and then they
were in the front door and he went out the back door and that sort of thing.

There was, they, they kept missing him. Um. Yeah, he was pretty
skilled bushman and he was just used to living off the land. I mean, he did it
for years. , and so yeah, it was, it was, I was actually wondering, , 'cause it
just after the, , TOU guy got shot and I was up there about a week after that
and flying around, I'm looking down and you could barely see through the canopy
in some areas.

And I was thinking, geez, I wonder if he's down there watching
us , and we knew he had guns like rifles and stuff. And I'm thinking, I wonder
where he is. And I just, you kind of had to put it outta your mind. Otherwise
you'd, you'd just be, yeah. You wouldn't do the job.

Rosie Skene:

No. .
And I, you know, helicopter's much easier to hear and see than one single man
in the Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, we were that target.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that was a good job. I really enjoyed that.

Rosie Skene:

Do you
wanna talk about, um, did you wanna talk about your critical incident in 2019?
You don't have to.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah. , so thi this is the job that, , I think this is the job
that tipped me over. Um, yeah. , it, so this was, this was early 2019. , , it
was an afternoon or just after lunch.

I was on the, uh, duty crew. So I was on the helicopter that
responds to patrol jobs. , we got called to, , the Hume Highway up at, um, una
The police had tried to, , stop a, a car. , the car had reversed into them,
rammed their, rammed their car and disabled it and taken off. So we got called,
Hey, search for this vehicle of interest.

. The offender was wanted. So we took off , and the location we
were going to was only five or six minutes from our base at the airport. So I
thought, oh, okay. I, and I was probably a bit complacent because it was
afternoon, it was after lunch. We, you know, we were gonna finish up in a few
hours and I thought, oh, I dunno, we'll catch this guy.

Um, you know, because how quickly does a car go and disappear
into traffic? , so we would've been overhead in, in four or five minutes. , got
there, had a search around, couldn't find him. I had, I was sitting up the
front, I'm talking to the police on the ground, , looking at the map and trying
to work out, an, get an area, get a perimeter of where we think this car might
be.

, the crewman sitting behind me is using the camera system.
He's searching front yards and searching streets and looking for people that
look out of place. , we got a call to go to a shopping center, which was at. I
think it was up near ra, so it's just down, further down the road. they said,
oh, a, a delivery truck's been stolen, a Woolworths truck's been stolen.

So I said, oh yeah, that's fairly close. Wonder if it's
connected. So we started to head up there and of course we got there and then
there's a report of, oh, we've located this, stolen, this car that had rammed
the police car, and it was there where the truck had been stolen. So we're
like, okay, well he stolen the truck, so we're wondering where's this truck
gonna go?

We just seemed to be always once, one or two steps behind him,
and which worried me and I just, I couldn't get up to where he was. We kept
getting reports of things happening and we'd get there late to the scene and he
was somewhere else. The next thing was, oh, we. Had accidents on, , king
Georges Road.

There's, there's a truck that's rammed cars off the road
heading down towards the, , the M five. And I thought, oh, that's gotta be him.
So then we're flying south, we're heading down towards, so we've moved further
suburbs down towards the south, and as you get towards, , closer towards the
city, you come up towards, , controlled airspace, which is part of Sydney
Airport.

And so there's like a big, big diameter, a big perimeter of
airspace where you need to get, , permission to go in because that's where the
commercial flights are leaving and landing and taking off. , so we're calling
up, pilot's, calling up, trying to get clearance to get into this, this
airspace closer to the city and I'm looking for this truck and I can't find it.

And we're just frantically searching. And , then there's
another job, , go over to channel. . Another channel over near, , Ramsgate, I
think it was. , there's a, , a man's crashed, a truck. He's taken a taxi at
knife point. He stabbed someone. And so I thought, oh no, this is outta
control.

I had to be same guy. So we got overhead. We find the, , the
truck, the stolen truck gets there. There's people helping out. This guy is in
the middle of the road. He's got a, a stab wound. Um, police are everywhere,
and they're saying to us, Hey, we need help to find this, this stolen taxi. ,
and it was, we're talking 3:00 PM on a weekday.

, and it's just over near sort of Ramsgate area. . It was
Brighton, le Sands. It was busy. There was so many cars. Where do you start
searching? And I, I honestly started thinking, well, so this guy's stolen a
truck. He's stolen a taxi, he's had no issue with stabbing someone. , , he's
violent, he's smashing into cars.

I start to think, is he some sort of lone wolf character who
really wants to hurt people? , 'cause he clearly is having an episode. And , it
really worried me that we couldn't catch up to him, you know, with all the,
with all the technology that we had. And we could move so fast across from one
side of the city to the other and we couldn't get to this guy.

And I started to feel really helpless. , it really bothered me.
, and, and the radio traffic on the channel was getting quite amped up. Cars
were calling over each other. There was a couple of sightings of the taxi down
a bit further to the south, and cars would race down there, and then they lost
him.

And so there was all these little pursuits starting and
finishing. And eventually, , another pursuit was engaged and I saw the taxi
pass in front of us. at the end of a, on a cross street. We took up a position
behind him. He was heading north up towards Sydney Airport where the runways
run over the, the, , top of the road there.

And he was flying. , he was weaving in and out of traffic. It
was just like high speed. , there was some cars following him. , it was, the
pursuit was really, really moving fast. And so I felt this real anxiety, which
had been growing for the last 40 minutes of the flight, I've gotta catch this
guy. Gotta get this guy like this is.

And I honestly, the way he was driving, , I was thinking he's
gonna kill someone or really hurt someone. And, and I just, I had to get this
pursuit stopped. , he turned around, , he turned around just before the tunnel
came back towards us. So he is flying towards us and we were really low. We
couldn't move anywhere because we had commercial airliners in front of us that
were coming into land to Sydney Airport.

So we were really restricted in where we could be in the
airspace. , he turned under us and we, we took up, , following the pursuit. ,
and then the manner of driving got even worse. , as he would come to red
lights, he'd be up on the footpath going through red lights, like breezing,
past pedestrians. He was knocking over rubbish bins.

Um, there were school kids out. He was by that stage at 3, 3 30
school kids out on the footpath. He was going around them and I just. My heart
was in my mouth, , had cars calling over each other on the radio. I tried to
make calls. I couldn't get out. It was just so hectic. Uh, it was, it was out
of control.

And I, I was really panicked. And I think I started to get real
tunnel vision. , I was focused on, , the screen in front of me, which was just
display, the camera image. , and I was also looking down the side 'cause I
could see him, his car, if I looked down my window just to the left and I was
just focused on that, I, I'd lost my perspective, , my situational awareness
around me.

I was just, and I started to lose my, , auditory, my sound. Um,
I, I know there was a couple of calls that I just missed just because I was so
wrapped up in what I was seeing. and I think that was the early signs of, ,
real panic. Um, so basically this, this person, he drove the taxi. Um, through
to an intersection.

He actually stopped in the middle of an intersection. , he got
out, the police pulled up right near him at gunpoint. He got out, he pulled out
a a large knife, and he, killed himself. Um, and, um, it, it was like it was so
violent and, uh, you know, it was just, I could not believe it. , could not
believe it.

So then you've got a crime scene in the middle of a busy
intersection. Um, the police right there with him, they went to recuss him, but
obviously he was, he was dead. He was not coming back. , so we helped put in ,
some roadblocks and, , perimeters to maintain the crime scene. And, and then
they had no further use for us.

And so after this really intense dynamic job that had been
building for 45 minutes. Came to a head and then there was no further need from
us. So they said, okay, you can return to base. So we flew back to base and it
was dead quiet. We flew back to base, , seven or eight minutes , in the
aircraft was sitting there and it was silence.

And I just, I could feel my heart pounding in my chest and I
just, , yeah, it was, it was horrible. Horrible. And we landed, , we landed and
I just sat in my seat and I was thinking, oh, I don't wanna go inside. I, I,
this is a critical incident. Uh, no, what did I say on the radio? Did I make a
good enough call?

You, you know, 'cause that was part of our job, was helping to
call the pursuit, call the danger to the cars on the ground. , when they were
overloaded with what was going on. I could call, you know, traffic or hazards
coming up, , had I made enough calls, had I told radio about what was going on,
and, um, so I started to second guess what I'd done.

It was all that. Anyway, we went inside and, , I went inside
and, and no one said a thing. Walked in through the operations room and where
we've got a big screen, big panel of screens there, and there's the image of
our down link from our video was up there on the screen and people were just
looking at it.

It was frozen and no one said a word. And, and the boss came
out and put his hand on my shoulder and he said, come on, let's, let's come
down to the office here. And yeah. , it was a horrible time. Um, I, I got
support from work. I got, yeah, really good support from the bosses. The bosses
were awesome. Um, but I was really, it, it really rattled me.

It really rattled me that job. I mean, I'd been to. , self harm
and, and suicide related jobs so many times. , one of the big jobs that we
would do all the time was, was body recoveries and stuff like that. But never
before had I seen someone take their life and we've been following this guy for
nearly an hour across the city and he's doing this, he's doing that, he's doing
this all just two steps ahead of us the whole time.

Just can't quite catch up to him. So there's that growing
anxiety in you that I've gotta get this guy, we gotta stop this guy before he
kills someone. And he took his life , and then there was just this huge and he
climax. So, um, yeah, I was, I, I think I panicked , on the way home I probably
had a little panic attack.

I was just completely shook up. I had to pull over. , I felt
hot. I was, I. I felt dizzy, sick in my stomach. I started breathing really
rapidly, all these sort of symptoms, and I didn't know what it was. , I'd had a
couple of little things like that happen at work before, but I didn't really
connect the dots and I didn't know what that, it was related to PTSD, got home.

And, , that night I had really bad dreams, , and for several
nights afterwards I had really bad dreams and I would, I'd be in bed and I'd
picture the, the offender standing there at the foot of my bed and it felt so
real and it was just horrible. Um, so that really rattled me. , yeah, that was,
I, I, I think that was the job that, that tipped me over the edge.

, I, I didn't fly for a lot longer. I had maybe half a dozen
more flights, after that, , you know, various jobs and I just. Each time I got
up into the air, I started to feel really anxious. I started to feel a bit
uncomfortable, which was really, , strange for me because I'd flown for several
years and I, I was comfortable and I knew my job and I, I had no issues with
responding to stuff and I was really comfortable in the air doing, and then I'd
get in and I'd sit down and I'd just feel this weight of like, oh no, what
happens if we get called to this?

Or What happens if it's this job or I have to do that? It
wasn't the being in the, in the helicopter so much, it was, oh, what if I get
up a shoot? What if I have to find someone who's missing or what if there's a
suicide or like, it didn't matter. It, it was any job and I could, I knew I
couldn't respond.

I just didn't think I could put myself in that position. So,
uh, I had a meeting with the chief pilot. I told him, I sat down and was
totally honest with him, and I said, look, , I'm not feeling good. This is on
my mind. And he said, well, you need to step back from flying. So I did. Mm.
Um, that was hard.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Especially seeing as , you can see that you loved it so much as
well. Yeah. , that would've been super, super difficult. Do you wanna take a
moment? Like, that was intense.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

I'll
just, , pause it.

so after that and then being grounded, is that how, what you
would say like,

Justyn Backhouse:

yeah, so, um, look, I, I just came to the realization that I was becoming more
and more anxious leading up to flights and I was getting in the air and, and as
jobs were called, I just felt this, this anxiety about responding, you know?

Um, and I just didn't feel that it was. Was fair to put other
crew in the position of having to fly with me and having to carry me , and
compensate for that. It just wasn't the right thing to do. Um, I, I lost a lot
of confidence, um, which was strange because up until then I was always happy
flying , and I, I knew my job and I had no issues generally.

And yeah, I lost a lot of confidence with it. , so I went to
speak to the chief pilot and , and he said he, he would pull me down from
flying duties, which was, I, I gave him no choice, you know, I don't blame him.
It's what had to happen. , after I started having the symptoms, I, , reached
out to EAP and they put me in touch with a psychologist.

I did have a few sessions, but I didn't really connect with her
and I really, , I don't really think she was, I. Trauma informed. ,

Rosie Skene:

yeah,

Justyn Backhouse:

it,
yeah,

Rosie Skene:

it does
make a difference. Oh my gosh.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
And I think, , it's different though, like the being trauma informed, can come
from so many angles. So having that from a, policing or first responder
perspective is so important.

And if they don't have that, it makes it so much more
difficult.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. Like I, oh, she was a lovely lady and I'm sure she was experienced, , but
she, she sort of attacked it from more of a holistic sort of a, oh, you're
depressed or you anxious, or you're stressed, or, uh, which I know now in
hindsight that.

The reason why it didn't feel like the right fit for me with
the therapy was that it, it wasn't really addressing what was at beneath it,
and maybe I wasn't being completely honest with her. So I only had a few
sessions and then I, I, you know, I was back at work, but I was working in the
office doing safety work mostly, and, um, bit of supervising, but I wasn't
flying.

Um, and I didn't really expect this to happen. But the not
flying bit and the not being deployed on jobs and working with the other crew
really affected me and my identity, my, my feeling of identity. Um, and I, I
started to get this real growing feeling of, of just being an outsider. ,
strangers that may seem, I'd worked there for a number of years and I knew
everyone, but the fact I was now no longer going out on the jobs with them,
doing the stuff.

The, the risky stuff , and putting myself, you know, I felt I
didn't have skin in the game. I, I was no longer relevant and, and, , what I
was doing was not worthwhile. So I really, it really caused me to doubt, doubt
myself. , and that no doubt didn't help my, my mental health. So I continued, I
had started having panic attacks, , and I started feeling quite nauseous and
quite sick before work.

So leading up to work after a few shifts off before I would go
back to work, I'd start to feel really anxious and really, really sick about
going to work. Um,

Rosie Skene:

so yeah,
I had that too.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah,

Rosie Skene:

it's,
um,

Justyn Backhouse:

horrible.

Rosie Skene:

It's so
horrible. Um, and it is that just anxiety of, you know, like, you know, it's
coming and obviously for you and you go to work and you.

I know it sounds like you felt a bit guilty as well, that you
couldn't do what you wanted Yeah. Wanted to do and feel like you were making a
contribution like you used to. That's horrible things to feel when, you know,
obviously I know you were going there

Justyn Backhouse:

and
it, it, it's, it's, um, you know, I don't blame anyone else.

It was all, you know, I was internalizing at all. It wasn't
like anyone at work treated me any differently. Um, but in my head, this
narrative was this brutal, Hey, you are not crew anymore. You are not flying,
you're not out there. You are sitting in your comfortable office. Like you are
not, you are not worthy.

You are not doing the job. You are not this, you are not that.
Like the judgment, the self judgment was just, , brutal. Um, yeah. So that,
that, I, I really struggled with that for a while.

Rosie Skene:

Um,
aren't we just so horrible to ourselves? Yeah. Things that you would never,
ever say to another person, ever. I know.

Yeah.

Justyn Backhouse:

It's

Rosie Skene:

crazy.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. I know. there's that real feeling of, you know, when you're on a team at
work and you, it's so important to be part of the team and to feel like you're
pulling your weight and you're contributing and you've got this real shared,
this shared brotherhood and this shared experience.

And if you're no longer doing that, you just feel like an
interloper. Yeah. You are like, oh, , you know, so that's how I felt. ,

Rosie Skene:

, how
long did you do that for before you decided? Like how did that decision come
about for you to not go back to work?

Justyn Backhouse:

Um,
I kept going to work and I was working in the office doing other things for
about 12 to 18 months.

I really pushed through for a long time and I shouldn't have.
Um, but I. Several months after that, I was getting panic attacks every week,
every couple of days, um, they'd be at work, they'd be in the car on the way
home, they'd be at home, and I'd just be a mess for 20 minutes. I would be
driving to work and feel this overwhelming feeling of fear and panic, and I'd
have to pull off the side of the road and I'd have a full episode and, and be
shaking in the car and, and totally out of it.

And then I'd pull myself together and drive off to work. And,
uh, you know, trying to convince myself, oh, there's nothing wrong. You're just
feeling a bit stressed because you know, you've been busy lately and there's
nothing wrong with you. Not knowing really what PTSD was and not knowing that
that's what I had, um, and not validating myself then going, oh, just, you're
being silly.

Just put it outta your mind. Um. You know, and then , the bad
dreams , and the stuff like that. , yeah, I, and I was getting tired. I had a
long commute to work. I was sitting in the car and I just felt I was grinding
myself down. Um, yeah, it was just, it was terrible.

Rosie Skene:

And can
I ask , um, yeah.

You had a family at that time as well?

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah, I had wife and two kids. They were young kids at that stage. They were
probably only, um, two or three years old. Um, yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
It's, there's a lot, isn't it? There's a lot going on there. Yeah.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. Um, like I absolutely adore my family and I often think, , without my
kids and my wife and that, I dunno where I'd be today.

Um, you know, they've really, I. Um, but also at the time, my
life was so busy and, , you just, you're being hit from both side, every side,
you know? Um, and it was, yeah, I, I just was not coping. I was not coping and,
you know, so I wasn't sleeping well 'cause I had nightmares. So I'd wake up
really tired, , only getting small amount of sleep.

, I wasn't eating well. I'd, I'd snack, I'd eat junk food. I'd
just have energy drinks in the car and on the way to work because I'm just
trying to keep my eyes open. And it was just, and then I'm exhausted, so I
don't wanna exercise and I've just, yeah. You know how you're in the

Rosie Skene:

cycle?
In the cycle. Cycle.

Yeah.

Justyn Backhouse:

Everything, you lose everything. All the important holistic stuff that keeps us
all mentally and everything, that you lose it all, then you just, it's ain't
gonna go one way.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
yeah,

, after you first psychologist and you really felt like you
didn't click, how did, what did you do then to get help?

Did you stop, , seeing anyone or did you Yeah. Go and see that
you stopped? Yeah, I

Justyn Backhouse:

stopped. Yeah. I, I only saw her for a few times and then didn't go back. Um,
and then I, , I didn't see anyone at all, , until I called off sick. I just, I
just self-managed it, except I always wasn't really managing it at all.

I, looking back, I wasn in a really bad way and I shouldn't
have been at work. I should not have been gonna work for several months. Um, I
was barely surviving and eventually when I, when I did call off, I was actually
on holidays. I was off for a couple of weeks with the kids. I. And I, I was due
to go back to work in a few days, and each day I was getting a day closer to my
next shift.

And I was just feeling this weight in my chest, this, this sick
feeling. I felt convinced something was gonna happen. I just had this feeling
of, of, um, yeah, something bad was gonna happen. I couldn't put my finger on
it. I just felt horrible. I was nauseous again and everything was bad. And I
thought to myself, you're on holidays, you've got your kids at home.

They're playing , in the backyard or whatever, like, you should
be enjoying this time. And I wasn't. I was completely down a dark hole. , so I,
I rang up my GP , and, , I said, look, I need to come and see you. And I did.
And when I sat down in his chair, he knew something was wrong and I just, he
asked me what was wrong and I just fell apart, completely fell apart.

Um. He said to me, well, you, you, you can't go back to work.
Not, not for a while. You, you are not in a good way. And, , he said, who's,
um, who's at home with you today? You know, have you got people at home? And,
you know, I, I think I know now that he was, was worried about me. And, and,
um, so, you know, I went home and I had to ring up work and I had to ring up
the one of the inspectors and say, Hey, , I, I'm really sorry.

I, I can't come to work next week. And I, I don't even remember
what I said, but I just said, Hey, look, I'm, I'm in a really bad state. I've
just been to , my gp. I'm, I can't do this. Um, I need to get myself sorted.
And yeah, I don't even remember where the conversation went. Spoke for a few
minutes and then.

Yeah. And then I got a referral to see a psychologist and, and
psychiatrist and I sort of went from there. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

How did
that feel for you, , after you saw the gp

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. And

Rosie Skene:

you
obviously validated what you were feeling and say, you know, you are crook
mate, you need to take a minute for yourself.

Yeah. And then making the phone call, which I can imagine
would've been really difficult after already feeling so guilty about being on
the desk. Oh yeah. How did it feel after that, making the phone call, hanging
up the phone, knowing that you didn't have to go back?

Justyn Backhouse:

I
felt a little bit of, um, a little bit of relief just knowing that I had a
little bit of breathing room in front of me.

Yeah. Um, and I didn't know how long it was gonna be. Honestly,
I. I think when you're like this, you are in denial. You're trying to convince
yourself and everyone else that you're really not that bad and that I'm okay
just, just having a bad day. You, , you try and lie your way through it and,
and I thought, oh, maybe a month or two and then I'll go back and, and had no
idea how long it was gonna be.

Um, yeah, I felt shame. I felt real, real shame for, for
walking off the point in, in my, in my estimation that I'd left my workmates. I
couldn't hack it anymore. You know, the workplace is full of people who are
still coming to work. They've had traumas, they're dealing with stuff every
day, but you can't deal with it.

What's wrong with you sort of thing. Um, you're not holding up
your end, you know? Um, I felt terrible and, but, but yeah. How after the, the
phone call was so hard, but afterwards I just felt a little bit of breathing
room and I'm like, okay. I just, I've put that to one side. I now need to sort
myself out.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah,

Rosie Skene:

I
thought that's funny. That might've been the case. That little, like, even just
a moment of relief just to go, okay, I I can, I can take a minute now and
what's going on because it's so confusing, isn't it? And I think I've um, said
it to so many people, like if you have a broken leg or a broken arm or you've
gotta crook back, you can see it.

Like you can, it's visual and you can go, well, I don't feel
very good 'cause my arm is broken. Yeah,

Justyn Backhouse:

yeah, yeah. But when

Rosie Skene:

it's
internal, um, and no one, and you look the same, your face looks the same,
nothing changes. Yeah. Um, you, you know, you might be a bit more depressed
obviously, but otherwise you look the same.

It's so hard to accept. I found it personally so hard to accept
that something was wrong because you, you can't see it. There's, it's so
difficult.

Justyn Backhouse:

It's, it, it really is. And you, you question yourself and, , you feel, yeah,
it feels like it lacks credibility. Um. Because people would ask you, oh, how
you doing at work?

Or, oh, you look a little bit stressed. And I'm thinking, God,
I was just like, an hour ago I had a full on panic attack in the stairwell, ,
and you have no idea how I'm feeling. I'm feeling terrible. Yeah. But, oh no,
I'm okay. You know, and you just, 'cause you know, I'll talk about it. , yeah,
it's pretty rare that you've opened up and talked to people.

, 'cause I was worried about losing my career. I loved being
there. I loved, I'd worked hard to, to get a job there. I loved what I was
doing. I didn't want to raise that flag up and go, Hey, I'm not well, I need
help. Because , it was ingrained in us over years and years and years that if
you did that well, your career is, is over.

Uh, I now know that that doesn't have to be the case, but at
the time, that was what I, I felt was like, oh, you can't, you know? So, um,
yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
It's so tough.

Justyn Backhouse:

Mm-hmm.

Rosie Skene:

. You
mentioned that you did EMDR.

Justyn Backhouse:

Hmm. Yeah, that's right.

Rosie Skene:

Something I'm really interested in 'cause I haven't done it. Oh, okay. I, I've
got a podcast episode.

I'm not sure if it'll come out before or after this. Maybe
after, um, with a, a lady that she's a ex paramedic and she's now MDR therapist

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

In
.Bateman's Bay And she was talking about it and it sounds incredible. Um, yeah.
Coming from someone that's never done it though. How did you find that?

Justyn Backhouse:

Um,
it's, yeah, I've been doing MDR with my psychiatrist for about three years,
probably more.

Um, and at first I didn't believe it at first, like, I thought,
oh, this is a bit wishy. So I sit in a seat, he sets up a stand in front of me
with a light, like a light bar like this, and you follow the little light
moving from side to side. And it's a bit hypnotic and it sounds a bit airy
fairy. What's this gonna do?

But you'd be amazed and when you're asked , to think about, , a
traumatic event , and picture it in your mind and then follow the light. All
this stuff , comes to the floor and it's, it's incredible. , it's exhausting.
It's mentally draining. You come out of it and you feel, oh, I'm just, I can
sleep now.

, and I've had real distressing emotional times in the chair,
really emotional times where I've had flashbacks and I've had to get up and
walk out 'cause I just can't breathe. And then there's other times, you know,
you get through it and then you come out and you go, oh, I feel all right about
that now.

And, and after a few sessions you'll say, now how do you, how
do you feel about it? If I talk about this now? And you're like, yeah, you know
what, that's, that's okay. I, I wouldn't choose to think about that. It's not
pleasant, but I'm okay with that. It doesn't scare me. I'm, I'm, you know, so
that's, I, for me, I think it's been, um.

Amazing. , it's been a long road. , yeah, so we've worked
through a number of traumas, although like a number of events and, and each one
could be 4, 5, 6 sessions or more. And , sometimes you walk out feeling
terrible, sometimes better, but overall you, it's an improvement. And I look
back now and I think I wouldn't be where I am now without that therapy.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. So

Justyn Backhouse:

I
really recommend it. Um, it's worked for me. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
That's so good. I'm, I'm sort of keen to give it a go actually. I think it's,
yeah. Good. Yeah. ,

Justyn Backhouse:

but
it is intense. It's, yeah,

Rosie Skene:

I've
heard that and I've heard that some people really dislike it because it's
brought up stuff that they, um. Didn't realize was, was a thing that was sort
of sitting in the back there.

Justyn Backhouse:

,

it's, it's interesting thing I, um, the way it was described to
me is that it, it, the brain is just think is just working in this left to
right, left to right, left to right thing, and it somehow recategorize, um, the
memories and, and moves them to a part of the brain where they're not so
threatening. And it's, it's really interesting to walk by it.

Rosie Skene:

The lady
that I had on, she, , described it like a library with a librarian. Okay. And
yeah, it's like they're books that haven't been put away properly and you just
get them out and sort of deal with them with the light and then the librarian
takes it and then puts it away.

Justyn Backhouse:

Oh,
that's good. I like that.

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
I'm like, oh, that sounds, that sounds quite lovely actually. Yeah. I'm much
more intense than that, but like, oh, that sounds nice.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah, that's a really good way of describing, I think. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
Um. There's so many things I wanna talk to you about, but I think we should
talk about your book because I, , I've really enjoyed reading it.

Justyn Backhouse:

Oh,
thank you.

Rosie Skene:

, and,
you know, I've read quite, quite a few books now from police, , and I just
loved how yours was so different as well. , obviously, you know, being in
highway, , I don't know many that have written about that. And then Polar Air
as well, and just all of the things that go along with both of those, you know,
types of policing, they're so different.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

, how
did the book come about?

Justyn Backhouse:

Uh,
yeah. I, I actually didn't set out to write a book and if you'd have told me
two years ago I was gonna write a book, I would've said no way. , my
psychologist, , said to me, you know, I was having, working through some, some
stuff and, and I was having some, some, .

Flashbacks and things. And she said, why don't you write about
your traumas? Why don't you start journaling? Write about things that are, that
are worrying you, and just explore it all. Put it down on paper and, and ,
there, there could be some, some sort of power in, in, in doing that. You know,
identifying which parts of it are, you know.

And so I started doing that. I started writing about different
events and then memories would come up from work. And sometimes there were
funny things like, oh, oh yeah, and this happened that day. And that was a
funny story. So I'd write that down. And I don't know about you, but my memory,
I, I seem to forget large chunks of, of my work career, but I remember some
things really clearly.

And, , so I would write down little notes about things that I,
that I thought were notable , and I started to get this collection of little
short stories, which is all it was, um, you know, a funny story or a serious
job, or this happened or that happened, or. And I thought, oh, I just wanna put
this together for my family and have a record of my service.

And so my kids can look at it in years to come and go, oh, dad
did this. And, um, eventually it, it sort of turned into a book and I, I don't
remember why I decided, but one day I thought, you know what? I'm just try and
see if I can get published. I didn't hold out much hope, , because it's very
hard, very, very hard to get first time author to get published.

And so I sent it off to a few places. I, I got it edited
professionally and I polished it and polished it and went back over it and
tried to make it as good as I could. 'cause there were parts of it that were
just, I was reading it back going, oh, what the hell is this? What have I
written here? And, um, so I had to get a bit of work, making it nicer and easy
to read.

And then I sent it off and eventually one night I got a phone
call from a lady from Big Sky Publishing and she said, Hey, . We'd really like
to work with you. I love this manuscript. And I thought, oh my goodness, what
is going on? Uh, and it was just a rollercoaster as since then, so, yeah. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

Congratulations. It's,

Justyn Backhouse:

thank you. That's, uh, I'm still, yeah. I'm still in shock when I think about
it. I, I just received the box of the first prints last week, and, , opening
the box and pulling my book out is, , is incredible. And it's, it's really, um,
I think it's really helping me on my journey. , it sort of validates how I've
been feeling and validates the emotions and, and the stuff that I've been
dealing with, , to see it there in paper.

I hope that, , I hope that people enjoy it. I hope that it,
maybe it can help people and I'd love other people to share their stories. .
There's a lot of, , feeling of vulnerability and, , and there's been times when
I've looked at it and gone, oh no, I can't believe I've done this. Have I done
the right thing?

, but I think you've gotta just keep moving forward and, and,
you know, all of us have got a story. , I just happen to have written mine down
and I hope other people do as well because there's, there's real power in that.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Justyn Backhouse:

Um,
I think

Rosie Skene:

there
is. Um, I went to a conference last month and they were talking about narrative
therapy.

I've never heard of it. I'm like, what is that? So I Googled
it. It's basically just what you've just explained, like Yeah. Writing down
your journey. And I'm like, of course. Like I don't mind journaling. I'm not, I
could be better at it. Um, but there is such power in writing down things,
especially that concern you, you know, like in just getting it outta your mind.

So Yeah, I can imagine that would've been quite therapeutic as
well to go through that process. Oh,

Justyn Backhouse:

totally. Yeah. And, and there were times when I sat down and I was like, I
can't write today. I can't even think about it. I'm not. Having a good day. So
I didn't, and there were other days when it just came to me and I just, you
know what?

I'm just gonna write a few hundred words. And so it took a, a
good 18 months, um, but, you know, just chipped away at it. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

And I
think too, , something we don't talk about a lot in, especially the cops, , and
getting out of the police and going through a mental health journey
rollercoaster usually

Justyn Backhouse:

mm-hmm.

Rosie Skene:

Um, is
the sense of you, you really lose a sense of purpose. And sometimes it can just
be getting to the next appointment, , or ticking the next form that you've
gotta bloody fill out or , how shit it is right at the start when there's so
much going on and you're at actually least capable of, of doing all that stuff.

But then after, you know, a little while, a month or two and
you sort of settle into it a bit, um, then you've, what do you do? Like,
there's no sense of purpose. You're not going to work, you know, maybe you've
got a family.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

But to
write. Down this, and then to decide that you're gonna turn it into a book I
can imagine would've given you some sort of sense of purpose again.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah, it has. I, I really struggled with that. Um, like you said, after I left,
and the loss of identity is huge. Um, you know, because you, I, I certainly did
attribute a lot of myself to being a cop. I was a cop and before I had my
family, that's kind of all I was. , uh, and so yeah, when you leave that
suddenly you're separated from that.

It's like, what am I, um, well, I'm still a dad, of course, and
a husband, but yeah, you, you struggle to find that purpose and how do I
continue to, to help people? How do I do something that's meaningful? , that's
was huge for me, no longer having the ability to go out and, and improve
people's day and help just, you know, do something productive.

So, yeah, I'm hoping the book well certainly has kept me
occupied and I hope that it continues to help me with that. . And I hope it
encourages other people and gives people some hope. , because I mean, I was, I
was in a dark, dark place for a while and, and you know, now I'm okay and, but
if I can get through it, you know, I'd like to think , that anyone can, it's
just, you know, we're all, we're all on a different road, but like, there's a
lot of shared adversity and, and I think, um, I just like, people would like
people to know that there is hope.

Um, there is hope, you know?

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
absolutely. It's, it can feel very hopeless. Yeah. A lot of the time. Totally.
It so for people to know that there is hope and, and for us to talk about it
too, um, yeah. It's so important. What tactics do you use now? , 'cause you
wrote tactics and I think of them as tactics. Oh, okay.

Justyn Backhouse:

Um,
yeah. What

Rosie Skene:

do you
do to look after yourself these days?

Justyn Backhouse:

Uh,
well, I, um. I am doing a, I'm still writing, , which for me is just, is kind
of my escape. So I do like writing about anything and everything. , and I am, ,
I'm trying to get myself to move more. One of the unfortunate byproducts of
being off and being unwell for a while was that I just didn't wanna go out.

I didn't wanna be around crowds and busy places and noises, and
so I just became a bit of a hermit. So I'm trying to get myself more active, ,
that sort of thing. , I think getting outdoors and, you know, whether you're
going for a walk, , by the beach or just getting some fresh air is huge. , I'm
trying to sleep more.

I'm. Sleep is massive. That was a real issue for me when I
first went off and I just couldn't process anything. And I wasn't even in the
right head space to be able to deal with my problems because I was getting four
or five hours a night and you're just not gonna, you can't think straight. , so
sleep's huge.

Um, yeah. So I'm trying to look at things a bit more
holistically. .

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
That's so good. , because it is, a mind body experience as well that we're all
connected and, and all that sort of stuff. So it's important to do things that
are good for your body 'cause it helps your mind. And then yeah, do things that
are good for your mind 'cause it helps your body, like it all works together
sort of thing.

That's good.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. Yeah.

Rosie Skene:

, I've
got four questions that I've written down. They're pretty easy. ?

Justyn Backhouse:

I
wonder?

Rosie Skene:

Um, I,
I, I think that, I don't know, obviously, 'cause we talk about trauma on the
podcast, but I forget to ask people about their happiest times because we can
forget that they were so like, fun shenanigans.

Yeah. Like, just good times. So what was your happiest time
that you can remember from being in the cops?

Justyn Backhouse:

From being in the cops?

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,

Justyn Backhouse:

definitely. It could be

Rosie Skene:

anything
actually. It could be anything else. Um,

Justyn Backhouse:

oh,
I just, I, I miss having a laugh with people at work. , and it could be being
on a car crew and you just go to a funny job where you've met an absolute
character, , just a crazy person, and you get back in the car and you just look
at each other and you burst out laughing and it's just hilarious.

You, you know, being policed. We laugh at the funniest things.
It's all black humor. Um, so I miss those times. . Having a laugh. I miss.
Yeah, things from POLAir being on jobs in, in beautiful places, like landing
in remote areas and, and you shut the aircraft down and you, it's just quiet
and still, and there's just, it's just amazing.

, just yeah, being in these places. , so I do miss that. I miss
seeing the countryside from the air. , yeah, they're good times.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.
It's nice to remember. , what's your biggest learning from your journey over
the last few years, do you think?

Justyn Backhouse:

I
think, um, I think you can do more than what you, what you give yourself credit
for.

Um, it, it is be quite easy, , when you're battling a mental
health, , condition to get in this mindset of, I'm just, I really can't do
anything and I'm really not, you know, you lose confidence. Um, you go back to
the basics, but I, I think humans are capable of a lot more. , and what they
think they are.

And, , if you'd have asked me a couple of years ago, I would've
not given myself much of a prognosis to be in a better place, but I am now in,
in quite a better place. , so yeah, I think, I think anything's possible.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. I
love that. That's so good. , any advice that you can share for anyone that's
listening?

I know that you said there is hope and, and all that sort of
stuff. Is there anything else that you can think of?

Justyn Backhouse:

Um,
yeah, be honest with yourself and if you're starting to feel like the jobs are
adding up and you're getting stuff weighing on your mind, like , it's normal to
think about things when you're at work, but when you're at home or when you're
in the car driving home, if your mind's constantly going back to particular
jobs and incidents and stuff and it.

Like, be honest with yourself and, and put your hand up. And,
and that doesn't have to mean saying, Hey, I can't work anymore. It might be
just, Hey, I need to go and talk to someone. And whether you do that through
EAP or whether you go out by yourself and just find a psychologist, have a
chat, , or connect with your mates.

Definitely connect with your mates, , because chances are
someone else is going through something similar. , and there's real, there's
real strength in sharing that. , yeah, but you gotta be, you gotta be honest
with yourself. , for too long, I, , tried to convince myself that I was okay
and I was getting through it, and it was just a rough patch and, , I was in
denial.

And, um, but you need to, yeah, you need to be honest with
yourself.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,
absolutely. It's so hard though. . Yeah. It's, yeah. Yeah. And. My last
question is, what is the thing that you're most looking forward to in the, you
know, next few weeks or months or this year even?

Justyn Backhouse:

Um,
oh,

you know, I, I'm, I'm really as, as silly as it sounds, I'm
actually, I'm looking forward to seeing the book on a shelf of a bookstore
somewhere.

Rosie Skene:

Hell
yeah.

Justyn Backhouse:

That'll be, um, I think that'll be a bit surreal. Um, I, I am, yeah, I have
this thing when, if I ever have to go anywhere and you go to the airport and
you buy a book and you, I think if you could see your book on the bookshelf in
the airport, you'd be like, oh, okay.

Wow. That's, that'd be pretty cool. , but look, otherwise, and
that it's around my kids and my family. Like my daughter's got gymnastics comps
coming up and, , I, I just love seeing that sort of stuff and, you know, and, ,
witnessing them grow up. So that's pretty exciting for me.

Rosie Skene:

Isn't
that just the best thing?

My little girl goes to gymnastics now. Yeah. And my boys play
basketball, but.

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah. I

Rosie Skene:

think
that is probably my greatest joy is to see them having so much fun doing
something that they love.

Justyn Backhouse:

It's amazing. And the joy they get from learning a, a move or a routine or
something, and that when they can finally nail it, it just, oh, it's just
amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. And

Rosie Skene:

then
when they look at you to see if you've seen it

Justyn Backhouse:

Yes. Because you're not the

Rosie Skene:

one
that's looking at your phone, you're actually watching a kid. Yeah. And you can
like give him the thumbs up or, yeah. It's so good.

Justyn Backhouse:

It's beautiful. Yeah. My son's like that with swimming as well. He loves
swimming and so he, yeah.

He loves when he gets moved up to the next level and he's, he
just loves it. So yeah. I seeing the joy that they have in their sports and
what they're doing is, is great.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. ,
the book is called Hidden Scars and it is out, is it the 30th of

Justyn Backhouse:

Yeah, about the 1st of May. So, um, it's on pre-order now via Amazon.

If people go to my website, there's links there to buy it, but
otherwise it should be in stores. From around the 1st of May.

Rosie Skene:

That's
so exciting. I'll link to your website in the show notes. I definitely
recommend that people read it. It is amazing. , thank you so much for my copy.
So generous. I love it.

It's all right. It's, thanks, rose. Thank you so much and have
a really great day.

Justyn Backhouse:

I
really appreciate, , you having me on your show. Thanks.

Rosie Skene:

Absolutely.

Justyn Backhouse:

Okay.

Rosie Skene:

I hope
you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, make sure to hit subscribe so you
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Your support means the world. My name is Rosie Skene join me
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Trauma. Until then, be kind to your mind and trust in the magic of your
consistent and positive efforts. Triumph beyond Your trauma is closer than you
think. Have the best week.