Rosie Skene:

Hello and welcome to episode 47
of Triumph Beyond Trauma. This week I have a true gentleman on the show, Steve
Budgen. Steve is a former tactical operations leader with the Australian
Federal Police who has transitioned from high stakes special operations into a
global career in crisis leadership, security consulting, and organizational
resilience.

[00:00:21]

He's led elite
police units, conducted special operations overseas, and provided strategic
security advice to major infrastructure, mining, and maritime clients across
the world. But Steve's story runs much deeper than job titles. He grew up in a
troubled and unstable home environment shaped by adversity from an early age.

[00:00:40]

Despite the chaos,
he found strength in discipline, fitness, and later service. Steve speaks
openly about the long tail of trauma, the challenges of complex PTSD, and the
ongoing process of unlearning survival mechanisms that no longer serve you.

[00:00:54]

His message is
simple but powerful. You are not what happened to you. Belief in yourself, even
if it starts small, is a key to rewriting your story. Today Steve shares
lessons from the front lines of policing, war zones, boardrooms, and the
personal trenches of recovery and reflection.

[00:01:10]

He journals daily
embraces stoic principles and is passionate about helping others navigate,
change, build resilience, and lead with authenticity even when it hurts.
Personally is always such a joy to sit down and have a conversation with
someone who is as passionate as I am in relation to speaking up loudly so
others don't suffer silently.

[00:01:29]

And this was
certainly the case with Steve. So without further ado, let's get into episode
47 with Steve Budgen.

[00:01:36]

Welcome to Triumph
Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores journeys of resilience and hope. I'm
Rosie Skene a yoga and breathwork teacher and founder of Tactical Yoga
Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mom to three beautiful kids and a
medically retired New South Wales police officer with PTSD. I understand the
challenges of navigating mental health in the first responder and veteran
community.

[00:02:02]

Join us for
incredible stories from individuals who've confronted the depths of mental
illness and discovered their path to happiness and purpose, as well as solo
episodes and expert discussions. Together we'll uncover the tools to help you
navigate your journey toward a brighter, more fulfilling life.

[00:02:19]

Whether you're
looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or just a friendly reminder that
you're not alone. Triumph on trauma has got your back. You matter and your
journey to a happier, more meaningful life starts right here.

[00:02:34]

Steve, welcome to
Triumph Beyond Trauma. It's a joy to have you on today.

[00:02:39]

Steve Budgen:

Thanks, Rosie. It's my pleasure
to be on here. And, , I'm really excited to be chatting with you, , because
you're doing great things.

[00:02:46]

Rosie Skene:

Thank you. , I think we'll just
start at the start, if you like, and head back maybe to, , what, what things
were like for you as a child growing up?

[00:02:54]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah, sure. So, grew up in
Dapto, Dapto, Dapto Dogs, which is sort of a working class suburb of, , of
Wollongong. Well, I actually didn't grow up there because I was born there,
stayed there for a few years. , my parents busted up. My dad was a cop. Um, but
he moved on and, , it was pretty much my mum and my little sister, I was, I was
three turning four, little sister was one and, uh, yeah, and we, uh, pretty
much got indoctrinated to the whole housing commission thing from that point
forward.

[00:03:29]

Mum did some work on
the side as a hairdresser. , but yeah, we moved around a lot. Yeah, I went to
lots and lots of different schools. I remember enrolling myself in one school,
I think I was in second class, , that was Warwong Public School.

[00:03:44]

Rosie Skene:

Wow.

[00:03:46]

Steve Budgen:

And then from there, yeah, ,
yeah, I ended up in a multiple range of different crazy places.

[00:03:53]

, one was in Darwin,
lived in a caravan. in an Aboriginal settlement, , outside of Darwin. Um, no, I
was about seven. Uh, yeah, but mum sort of got turned things around, , when I
was nine and, , met, um, met a nice guy. They had three kids in quick succession
and my sister and I always sort of struggled to fit in.

[00:04:14]

We didn't really
know where we actually belonged. So, um, I actually found the Navy cadets when
I think I was 12 and it allowed me to get away. On weekends and things like
that. And, , yeah, it was pretty cool. And then I struggled in school because I
went to so many schools and I'd like a lot of confidence.

[00:04:33]

, I think I remember
telling kids in high school. I wanted to join the Navy and people say, Steve,
you're too stupid to do that. You're not smart enough. You'd never get in. I'm
like, okay, don't worry. I was in the Navy cadet. So, , I sort of had a little
bit of self belief back then. Sort of was able to.

[00:04:51]

Ignore a lot of
things people would say, , but nonetheless, I didn't get in the first couple of
times. I actually tried to get in as a, , as a junior recruit because you could
join at age 15 back then in the Navy and they were year 10. But in order to do
that, you needed really good grades. So I failed that one.

[00:05:09]

Then I discovered
this thing where they had this, you could become a junior musician, but you had
the same thing. But you need to know a musical instrument. Now, I played the
recorder terribly in, in primary school, but then I thought, this is my chance.
So I went to the library, , I hired a trumpet and started, , doing, trumpet
lessons through school.

[00:05:29]

Didn't work, still
failed. But the year after, just after I'd finished year 10, , I did get into
the Navy in a real base level role. Um, yeah, it was really exciting. It got me
away, gave me a sense of belonging. And, , that's where my journey sort of started.
Excuse me. , And, yeah, it was a, it was a, it was a big adventure.

[00:05:55]

, I found that I got
myself into the wrong sort of role. So then I transitioned into, , Navy diving,
which was really, really good for me. , But then, uh, I had, , diving accident,
which, and I had a problem with my ears. So I had to stop diving for a while. ,
so I ended up Leaving the Navy, , I was looking at, I always wanted to be a cop
and I don't know whether, because I wanted, um, approval of my dad or something
like that in the background, because we never saw him, we only saw him a couple
of times a year back then, um, he'd moved on, had another family and, , yeah,
so I was probably maybe some subconscious behind that why I wanted to go there,
but I always wanted to, , serve and, and, , Yeah, being in some sort of service
role.

[00:06:41]

So anyway, didn't
get into the NSW Cops, did get into the Victoria Police, went down there for a
few years, , and that was crazy. That was back in the late 80s, early 90s. It
was a different era back then. Yeah, it was crazy. It was like just after the Walsh
Street, , shootings.

[00:06:59]

Rosie Skene:

Ah yess.

[00:06:59]

Steve Budgen:

Um, where Tynan and Eyre were,
were, were, were gunned down.

[00:07:04]

So, so that gangland
thing was, yeah, it was crazy. And the things that we did, which we thought
were normal back then, people would look at you like you were a criminal now,
if you don't mention you actually did some of those things, but it was cultural.
And, , as a young person, Didn't really see too much wrong with it of course
now with wisdom and and things you sort of look back and go wow that was a
crazy crazy time in in policing.

[00:07:30]

Uh, so anyway, , I
applied to come home wanted to get back up here and I ended up getting into the
New South Wales Cops and, , yeah, uh. Class 251, if that means anything, uh,
yeah, no, so I was, I was in 19

[00:07:48]

Rosie Skene:

They've changed it so many times,
I don't even know what class I'm out of, really. Yeah,

[00:07:52]

Steve Budgen:

yeah.

[00:07:52]

Rosie Skene:

Just 2007.

[00:07:53]

That was back in,

[00:07:54]

Steve Budgen:

yeah, yeah, that was back in 92,
yeah. And then, yeah, so, uh, did lots of, lots of crazy things there, and
then, um, in So how, how

[00:08:05]

Rosie Skene:

old were you at that time when
you came across to New South Wales?

[00:08:09]

Steve Budgen:

23. 24. 24.

[00:08:15]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. So you've already had so
much experience. Yeah. Like life experience by 24. Yeah.

[00:08:21]

Already had like
been in the Navy, been in the Victoria Police and now come across to New South
Wales like that for a 23-year-old. That's pretty crazy.

[00:08:29]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah. Yeah. Was was nuts. So,
but it was great. Yeah. , and then. Yeah, I got posted to, uh, Campbelltown.
Did a few years in General Duties and then, , applied for the Tactical
Operations Unit.

[00:08:44]

Always wanted to go
there, , and do that sort of stuff. I didn't get in the first time. It was a
really, really hard selection course, , but got in the year after. And that was
quite traumatic in itself, actually. The selection course? Well, no, the selection
course was A bit of a blur, like a bad car accident, but the time leading up
after that, the 12 months worth of specialist courses, everyone thinks, oh, you
get into the, you pass the selection course and you're, you're done and dusted,
but no, there was more stress every day, turning up to work in that 12 months,
um, than anything, anything else.

[00:09:24]

It was like.
Horrendous, um, because you weren't really accepted even then, , because they
had to build trust and stuff like that. But even then, culturally, it was very
different back then. , and I was, I struggled, I really struggled for the
courses, . I was not a natural fit, and if they weren't taking extra people
that year from ill be honest with you Rosiei, I probably wouldn't have got in,
but I was lucky.

[00:09:45]

Um, so, so that was
really, really, , tough, but I was proud of what I was able to achieve there. ,
and then, , I struggled. The way I turned it around was I just never gave up
and I believed in myself. And whenever there was an opportunity to do extra training,
I was down there, down there, down there shooting, practicing all the skills.

[00:10:07]

And every year,
these tactical groups, they have, , they, well, they used to go to Perth and
train with the SAS, but I think they rotate it now where they do sometimes the
Commandos and then sometimes the Perth, just make sure everybody two schools
are on the same page. Um, and. Someone had pulled out and the boss who liked my
work ethic gave me a crack and no one could believe they're going to send me
over because they only sent their best operators over there because they didn't
want to get embarrassed if somebody failed.

[00:10:37]

And, um, I got this
opportunity, went over there and ended up performing really, really well.
Everybody's surprised. , and came back and that was pivotal as well because
people, I was given an opportunity where people didn't know me or. Everyone was
on blank canvas and that was some intense training. It was live fire, shooting
rounds, moving in buildings.

[00:11:01]

Um, it was crazy
sort of stuff. Um, but great. But what happened from that point, that was
really pivotal because that self belief. That I had went to another level
because I proved that I could do it. I could prove it. I could mix it with
everybody else in that unit. And then, um, opportunity started happen for me
and, , I end up, , running certain courses, um, the maritime.

[00:11:29]

tactical operations
side of the house, , some of the specialist weapons and also some CQB, close
quarter battle tactics, which is absolutely my nemesis. It's like dancing,
doing some sort of choreographed dance. And I like had two left feet, but
eventually I got there as well. And, , I always promised myself I was going to
take a different approach.

[00:11:49]

To training when I
started to get into those training roles myself and focus more on trying to
bring out the best in an individual, rather than screaming at him and bashing
him over the head and that bastardization. And it wasn't very popular, the
approach at the time, but I had the opportunity. , I've had the opportunity a
few times since, sometimes that tragic passing of former members that I used to
work with to be able to catch up with these guys, and I can see the levels at
which that place has gone to, , yeah, sure, some tragic things like Lint have,
um, changed a lot of the processes and things are always changing in that
world, like any specialist area, and, , yeah, I'd like to think I had a little
part to play in the transitioning To the different methodologies around
training.

[00:12:37]

Um, maybe it's just
a real small part, but I'll take it. Yeah, yeah, I'll claim it. , and then from
there, so from there in 2007, um, John Howard and the Liberal government, , had
a big push on developing, , a, a capability around law enforcement that transcended
borders because of what happened, , on Christmas Island.

[00:13:02]

, There was a bad
look thing where they ended up sending a whole heap of SAS soldiers onto a, ,
onto the Tampa to, I think it was, , to deal with a lot of, uh, illegal
refugees. So we formed this unit and what they did was they went around
Australia and they poached. All the experienced tactical operators didn't go
down too well with the state based cops, but they paid us a lot of extra money,
and yeah, we all headed off down to Canberra, and that was a crazy time, and
that was also an additional ride, rollercoaster ride, doing all sorts of
amazing things, , Solomon Islands, Timor.

[00:13:39]

Um, a lot of,
operations at Christmas Island. In that time I got promoted to team leader and
before I left I was, , acting operations manager, , for a couple of years, ,
actually running high risk jobs all over the place. Uh, one of them was
Villawood Detention Centre when it burnt down. There was a siege there for a
couple of weeks for a whole heap of people on top of a roof.

[00:13:59]

I

[00:14:00]

Rosie Skene:

remember, yeah.

[00:14:01]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah, and I wanted to get them
off, but, , and I was getting pressure from senior executive Canberra because I
was the senior tactical commander on site saying, get them off the roof now.
I'm like, well, there's 50 cameras outside the fence. And if our guys happen to
roll off of one of those guys, it's not going to be good.

[00:14:17]

So they trusted me,
left it with me. We ended up, , removing, , a lot of the staff, which were Held
hostage at the time from the center, , and resolving it. So that was a good
win. And then from there, I seemed to bounce to Christmas Island and doing the
same thing. , I had three, three kids in that time. Um, they're all older now,
but at the time it was pretty, pretty tough.

[00:14:39]

And I went through a
marriage breakdown

[00:14:41]

Rosie Skene:

and

[00:14:43]

Steve Budgen:

that was really, really hard.
Um, I always wanted to try and do it. better than my dad in terms of parenting.
I'm getting pretty raw with you now.

[00:14:52]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

[00:14:53]

Steve Budgen:

With your listeners. Um, so, and
I was based in Canberra and I traveled a lot and I'm thinking, how am I going
to do this?

[00:15:02]

How am I going to
have that relationship with my kids that I've always wanted to have that
perhaps I didn't have as a kid and to be able to give them what, , what I
didn't have. , And I love tactical policing. It was my world and it was my
tribe. I did a LinkedIn piece recently on, , loss of tribe and like redefining
yourself.

[00:15:23]

It's quite cathartic
in actually doing that. But in reflection on that, it's so true. When you
become part of something and you become really competent in a crew and you have
to step away from that for whatever reason, It can be really, really tough. So
that's what happened to me in 2012. I had an opportunity to relocate from
Canberra back to Sydney.

[00:15:46]

And, , actually I
did it on compassionate grounds and I walked the airport, , as a, , As a
sergeant there, and it was for me, it was soul destroying. I was going to say,
how

[00:15:57]

Rosie Skene:

was that? That would have been
really hard.

[00:16:00]

Steve Budgen:

So hard. And you know, and not
to detract from the importance of that role.

[00:16:05]

Rosie Skene:

Not at all. It was

[00:16:05]

Steve Budgen:

very, very different from what
I'd been used to and what I'd come from.

[00:16:08]

And the people I
worked with were amazing. Um, you know, they knew where I'd been and they, you
know, they loved, um, uh, listening to the stories and working with me, but I
was lost. I was really lost. I ended up getting shingles. And, um, it was really,
really bad. From stress? Yeah. From stress. Wow. The left side of my back was a
scab for weeks and I thought, I just can't do this anymore.

[00:16:35]

When I was with the
AFP, I did a lot of, I'd always dived from the Navy days. I ended up getting
back, my ears hurt, I started diving again, , and developed a, uh, a A really
good capability from the AFP, , was the first rebreather tactical diving capability
and went to a lot of symposiums and got a guy out from Scotland who we spoke
about.

[00:16:55]

So that sort of
stuff. He was connected to a salvage company and they needed a general manager
in Australia to run their marine response. So these guys were swashbuckling
dudes that jumped on planes and helicopters and flew to remote areas where a
ship might have crashed and actually saved the ship.

[00:17:15]

Rosie Skene:

Wow.

[00:17:16]

Steve Budgen:

Um, and I went to this job
interview not really knowing a lot about it other than what this guy told me.
And I, the people that were in it were two very senior executives from the
Parent company, sorry, the parent company in Holland and, , they just asked me
basic questions about operational decision making and I'm like, yeah, well, I'd
think about this and that and that and it turns out they really liked it.

[00:17:42]

There's a lot of
other senior people from the shipping industry that they. Bypassed and I got
the job and I think I was telling you this the other day. It was funny. I
couldn't believe and I thought this is great. It's an opportunity to get back
to Sydney. I'm stepping away and that's going to be really really hard.

[00:17:57]

Um, but it's a new
challenge and I turned up at this massive warehouse that they had out at
Ingleburn. And, , I'm trying to navigate my way through this place and there's
staff everywhere and I'm sort of here, it's my first day on the job, , and I'm
like, all right, okay, yeah, no worries, , just head up there and I headed up
to the office and there was this, in the corner, there was this massive office
with a library, like it was a huge library that you'd see any, any reputable
law firm.

[00:18:24]

Yeah. Um, there's a
lot of legal stuff that goes behind marine salvage. And, um, I asked the
office. Lady there. I said, , here I am. , where do you want me to sit? She
goes, you're over there. I said, where? Just in front of that office. No, no,
in that office where the big mahogany desk is. In the library. In the library.

[00:18:43]

I'm like, this is
surreal. And I tell people this all the time. I sat behind this massive desk
and I felt like George Costanza with the Penske file. Not meant to be here.
Massive, massive imposter syndrome. And I think that happens with a lot of cops
that transition out as well. They have that imposter syndrome.

[00:19:06]

If they get into any
sort of role that they're not really familiar with. , I've seen that happen a
lot as well. Yeah. So yeah, so did that. For a few years, the company
transitioned, did a lot of crazy jobs in Noumea Fiji, , yeah, flying ironcally
back to PNG where I am now, saving some ships and developing some emergency
response capability around the Australian coastline for AMSA.

[00:19:31]

So I had some really
good wins there, it was really enjoyable. The business was transitioning, they
were winding back. Two companies. Formed together and this position was likely
to be relocated to Singapore and they gave me the heads up on that and I couldn't
do that with my kids because I was still so young.

[00:19:50]

So the company
looked after me really well. Um, and I ended up setting up, , my consulting
business, which was around crisis management, , maritime security and things
like that. And I almost walked out. Of the door 1 day, and then back into
clients who don't work within that company, which is all about board with with
the company because of what I was actually doing with them.

[00:20:13]

And, , yeah, and
that was crazy right from then had a few other gigs along the way. But I've
always had the consulting firm as a base to come back to, , 1 of the things
personally that. I've had to work on really hard and that's my resilience
working with people who are not on the same page. , and that's it.

[00:20:39]

been difficult and
I've actually been able to master that through a lot of stuff around, um,
meditation and, , I've, I've read a lot and also, also therapy, having a good,
good, , good person to talk to, not just your friends, but in a professional
space as well. And that's helped me a lot. I mean, I was, um, for a period of
time, I was Director of the EPA for Regulatory Operations, , before.

[00:21:05]

Getting called back
to buy some clients to help out with a big project, , on the eastern seaboard
around, , security and crisis management for, , a, , minerals company. I won't
mention which one. It's one of the bigger ones. And then from there, I find myself
back in the jungle, , in the jungles of PNG's security superintendent, ,
coordinating, , host government security forces, um, and yeah, it's pretty
challenging as well.

[00:21:32]

Yeah. And that's
what you're doing

[00:21:33]

Rosie Skene:

now?

[00:21:34]

Steve Budgen:

That's where I'm, that's where
I'm at now. I forgot to mention, when I was at the TOU, it was during 2000,
2004 it was, that's the height of the Iraq war, , I took six months off work
and went to Iraq, , and, , Did all sorts of crazy stuff over there around, ,
counter terrorism training and stuff like that.

[00:21:55]

Uh, yeah, so there's
a lot of people that you probably know that I did that with, I'd say. But, um,

[00:22:03]

Rosie Skene:

so you were training, you were
training the Iraqis there? Yeah, we're

[00:22:07]

Steve Budgen:

training Iraqis, but back then
we also had to do the PSD side of the house internally ourselves. We had our
own particular security detail that, um, uh, ran around on the crazy roads of
Um, Iraq, um, between Baghdad and our base, which was south in Annamaniah,
which is also an interesting time.

[00:22:28]

Um, yeah, and And
here we are now, but I guess, um, I guess for me, um, just any sort of message
around my thing, it's just about self belief, believe in yourself, keep
learning and keep your head busy with things, um, and I try to tell that to a
lot of friends that are transitioning out of the police, and some, just some
amazing people, doing some great things out there, Simon Bradstock and Sean
Haran doing things with Beyond the Badge, which is great stuff, helping people
actually believe in the skills you have as a cop, because we just undersell
ourselves so much, um, and, and, uh, actually letting it fit.

[00:23:10]

into a corporate
environment and showing you how to sue yourself. So those guys are doing great
stuff there. , Can I just

[00:23:16]

Rosie Skene:

ask, sorry, before you keep
going, because I've written as a kid, I've got notes here and it's just self
belief I wrote down. And even as a kid, obviously, you know, talking to other
kids in the schoolyard in high school saying, I'm going to join the Navy and
then going, oh yeah, whatever.

[00:23:33]

You, you've had that
self belief, it seems like for your whole life. Do you know where that's come
from? Is it just within you, or has it?

[00:23:41]

Steve Budgen:

Um, I've always been a bit of a
dreamer, Rosie, and I've never given up on dreams. , I think, and having, I
never really had a, um, a support network as a kid. My mum tried her best, but
she got, had some, , substance abuse issues.

[00:23:59]

And, , and both my
mum and my sister died, uh, very close. Together, , from, , drug related
things. , so I sort of, I guess I had to, , was either that or give up and the
latter wasn't the option, , even I remember when I left the, Navy to join the
Victoria Police, even people in the Navy said, you again, you're too stupid to
do that.

[00:24:25]

There's no way
you're going to get in. And, , I lived with my auntie at the time. She was
close to the Navy base that I worked at HMAS Penguin, , in Sydney. And, , she
taught me to touch type. And she talked and gave me all these aptitude tests,
and I couldn't believe it when I actually got the call up to go to Victoria to
do the testing.

[00:24:45]

, But when I, you
know, even when I went down there, so like I believe in myself, but sometimes I
don't believe it.

[00:24:50]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. And I

[00:24:51]

Steve Budgen:

went down there, I'll never ever
forget it, it was like this massive church, if any of the listeners know Glen
Waverley, , Police Academy, it's It's, it's, it's pretty legendary. It's very
old ex monastery and you can hear a pin drop in this place.

[00:25:08]

There's a massive,
massive , area, big hall where they have all desks and everyone has to sit down
and do the tests. And I was always last, and I still am, I'm always the last to
do any sort of test. I remember I was the second last to leave the room and
when they, this old sergeant called everybody together to read the names out, I
thought he was reading the names out of the people that were successful and
passed the aptitude tests.

[00:25:32]

And as he'd read the
names out, they'd leave. And there was a core nucleus of people that were left
behind. And I'm walking around thinking, okay, this is going to, this is where
I want to find out whether they're going to give us another go. Whether I have
to wait 12 months to apply again. And they said, well, congratulations.

[00:25:49]

, you guys have
passed to the next stage. You've just got to do your physicals now. And I'm
like, wow. But even from back then, it's just an example of, just always give
it a crack and see how you go. Yeah, but

[00:26:01]

Rosie Skene:

even, even when you had your
first attempt in the TOU, And then, you know, obviously got cracked off.

[00:26:07]

And then, what did
you do in that time? Because to go back for a second one, like, I, I've
obviously never done the selection course, but from what I've heard from many,
many people, it's not easy. And hugely psychological. So, what, it must have
just been that drive again that kept you going for 12 months to have another go
at it.

[00:26:25]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah, I think it, um, uh,
incidentally, a lot of people do it second time around. I think it gets to the
stage with TOU selection. I remember when I was, um, directing staff on
selection courses, , if a person left through injury or something like that.
And I left from injury the first time, we'd give him another go to come back.

[00:26:48]

Um, but often you'll
get through the selection course, you might be the biggest, strongest person
there, but your headspace and your attitude, um, was not what they wanted. So I
was lucky in that when I went away, I knew what I had to do and how I could
prevent my body from breaking down again to give it a second.

[00:27:09]

Go. And so I trained
for 12 months with another guy who also failed on that first time and we
trained together consistently and just got everything right and did it the
second time. But again, just got to believe and have a go. Never give up.

[00:27:27]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, that's it, isn't it? I just
think too, and even when we spoke the other day and you, uh, you know, talking
about working as a civilian, , but just having a crack and just thinking, well,
what, what is the worst thing that can happen?

[00:27:41]

You know, what is
the worst thing? And then. Like, fuck it, I'll just do it anyway.

[00:27:47]

Steve Budgen:

100%. And that's where the other
thing, I think, yeah, and I forgot about that when we were having a chat the
other day. That's one of the things that I still come back to now, like when
you're in that policing environment and you're, or you might be a veteran in
the military and you've done operations, things can't get much worse than that
in terms of life and death.

[00:28:10]

And when you
transition to the corporate world, um, It's, um, it's the little things that
you go, is this really a problem? They want me to fix this. Yeah.

[00:28:21]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. And you

[00:28:21]

Steve Budgen:

can do it on your ear. Um, I
remember one guy telling me, um, and you, you know, I don't wanna mention his
name, but he, when he left the, the TAU, he had a, uh, a high.

[00:28:36]

Um, he ended up
getting a good position, security, national security manager position, or a,
um, work up a safety role, but the CEO of the company, or someone senior in the
company, his daughter was in Singapore and lost a passport, well, it was a
crisis, and it's like. Can you go over there and sort it out? And he's like,
yeah, okay.

[00:28:57]

And he went over
there, got an appliance, sorted it out, spoke to the embassy, got an emergency
passport issued. And they thought this guy was a saviour. It was like, um,
stuff that What a hero. Yeah, yeah, it's the stuff we do on a daily basis in
the COPS that you just sell yourself short for. Um, so yeah, uh, I think Um, I
remember a few times being in senior roles that, and having imposter syndrome,
but then remembering what is the worst thing that can happen here.

[00:29:25]

They can sack me,
I'll get another job.

[00:29:27]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

[00:29:27]

Steve Budgen:

Um, I sort of got to that and,
um, it was a good space to be in really, because you didn't really get too much
get to you.

[00:29:34]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I love
that. I love that mindset so much. I, I think, um, when I look back at my own
life, I feel like I've had that thought through when I've made decisions, like
even joining the cops and, and talking to my dad about it.

[00:29:50]

You know, I was
working as a barista after being a chef for a few years and, you know, he's
like, well, what do you want to do? Because I didn't want to make coffee for
the rest of my life. I'm like, I don't know. I think I want to join the cops.
He's like, we'll just do it. And I was like, yeah, well, what is the worst
thing that can happen?

[00:30:03]

Either get in or I
don't. And I just have to make another decision then. Like, um, and then even
in the cops, you know, doing different things there. There's always someone, I
think in the cops, especially that wants to tell you that you can't do things.
So I love that. Okay, I'm going to do it now.

[00:30:21]

Steve Budgen:

You can't do it.

[00:30:22]

You can't

[00:30:22]

Rosie Skene:

do it.

[00:30:23]

Steve Budgen:

You

[00:30:24]

Rosie Skene:

can't do that. You haven't been
in long enough. Well, you know, like, you know, you're not. Smart enough or
whatever they want to come up with. You're like, well, I'm going to do it now.

[00:30:32]

Steve Budgen:

It can be fuel for people that,
right?

[00:30:34]

Rosie Skene:

I love that.

[00:30:35]

Steve Budgen:

No, that's really good.

[00:30:36]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. Yeah. Um, your story
reminds me very much, and I'm sure you're well aware of Keith Banks.

[00:30:43]

Yeah. , there's so
many similarities, , with your story and his, , like growing up in a household,
, that wasn't sort of. , without a father figure and, , with younger siblings
as well. I'm pretty sure he had a younger sister, , and then going into doing
some specialist policing. I just can see, and there's, , the mindset that you
both have, but also getting out of that.

[00:31:05]

Taking yourself out
of that situation when you definitely could have been a product of that
environment and sort of gone down similar paths. I find that so interesting. ,
yeah, there's like so many people like that, that have done the same thing.

[00:31:18]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess so.
It's all about what's inside you and how you think, I guess, and whether you,
and the courage you have to step outside your comfort zone and back yourself.

[00:31:30]

I think, , what I
found really interesting, and, , I remember when I was in the TOU, I'd only
been there a couple of years, I think, and, , I was in the meal room on night
shift with a very colourful figure, , from the TOU, great guy. We were having
this discussion around. So what do you think we'll do after this?

[00:31:48]

Do you think we'll,
we'll be here forever. And it was almost five years to the day after that
conversation that we're in the same room, having the same conversation. I said,
Hey, do you know, we had this same chat five years ago. And we're still here. And
the thing is, when you're in the units like that, I think some people find it
more difficult to step out of their comfort zone because they've become a
master of something.

[00:32:17]

They're well
regarded. They're well looked after. They're right in their comfort zone.
They're an expert at what they do. And even though to actually get into those
high performing units takes a lot, once some people are there, they're not
prepared to step out of it. And to redefine re reinvent themselves and keep
learning.

[00:32:37]

, I've found that a
lot to, uh, not just with, you know, areas like, , specialist technical
policing or whatever, but, , other, , professions, people sort of like, uh,
well, you know what, I'd love to give that a go. I might fail and I can't fail.
Yeah. And as we've done so much reading now, , failure is all about learning,
but you don't think about that at the time.

[00:33:02]

Rosie Skene:

No, I think, yeah, the best
learnings do come from failures, don't they? Or perceived failures because
Yeah,

[00:33:07]

Steve Budgen:

yeah, yeah. So I guess, and I
never really read a lot. Until probably the last few years, and I think I've
learned a lot about myself and about the way I think and about the way I do
things through some great readings.

[00:33:19]

Like, um, there's a
really good book called Resilience Shield.

[00:33:24]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, Dan Pronk

[00:33:25]

Steve Budgen:

Dan Pronk Dan Pronk

[00:33:27]

Rosie Skene:

And Ben, yeah,

[00:33:28]

Steve Budgen:

Tim Curtis. Yeah, that's

[00:33:29]

Rosie Skene:

right.

[00:33:30]

Steve Budgen:

Three SAS guys. But it's like
they remove all the bravado and the SAS. Yeah, sure, they've thrown some
stories there, but it's really about resilience and the science behind it.

[00:33:41]

And, um, yeah, and
some actual coping strategies around stress and things like that. So much out
of that. That was a great book, a really good one. Um, yeah, a few things like
that have helped along the way.

[00:33:53]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. , , I just want to go back
to when you left because you made the decision for your kids.

[00:33:59]

Um, how did you find
that? Because I, in a very different situation to you, but that's the same
reason that I left because I had a very young family. Um, and I just realized
that I couldn't do both things and psychologically, um, very shortly after I was
diagnosed with PTSD anyway. So I knew that the end was there, but I just sort
of thought, you know, I can't keep doing this because I need to be there for my
kids.

[00:34:22]

, I found it really
difficult and, you know, , I guess in those roles like policing or defense, ,
that there is that sense of, Purpose and camaraderie and, you know, the family,
which I'm sort of struggling with at the moment, , in relation to that, but
then coming back to your own family and you said before, you know, you got a
little bit deep and said, you know, you wanted to do better than your father
did.

[00:34:47]

How do you feel that
that went for you now that your kids are grown up and how's your relationship
with them? And do you think the best choice that you you made?

[00:34:55]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah, a hundred percent like I
don't regret any of that And I'm not sure whether I would have regretted it
regardless of how the relationship turned out with with my kids because I know
That I've done the right thing and I've made the right decisions, but the
relationships great with my guys.

[00:35:15]

Some people might
accuse some of the relationships. My kids is codependent because we do a lot of
outdoor rock climbing together. , a lot of, , yeah, a lot of, a lot of hot, a
lot of training, lots of, lots of stuff together. So, um, yeah, things and I've
got to balance that because. Yeah. Where I'm working now, it's, the
relationships changed because I am away a lot of the time.

[00:35:39]

So when we broke up,
when my, when my, and I'd moved on, one of the things was I always wanted 50 50
care of the kids. I couldn't do anything less. And, , so it was always a week
about, , and I remember I did one, , project where I was working for a year. I
was working in India, Japan, . Malaysia, Hong Kong, Singapore, and I'd have to
cram all the work that I did into one week so I could get back in time to have
the kids.

[00:36:09]

I'm really, really
thankful for the relationship. I do have my ex because she's. Very patient and
supportive to be able to keep that going. And I've always had that flexibility.
Like, if I think I think it was 1 stage, I had to go to the States because, ,
well, I was tendering to do the search for MH370 and, uh, I said, yeah, so I
spent a lot of time there, but I was able to do equal time when I come back.

[00:36:35]

So, um, yeah, I
don't regret any, any of that. And they're the reasons why. I've done it, but I
think you have to be really, really careful not to expect anything back because
kids are kids and I just think you have to do it for your own reasons. And if
they've turned out, okay, and you can say, well, I was there.

[00:36:58]

Oh, look, I've
created. The biggest thing I've been able to do is create memories for my kids.
We've been skiing in Canada. We'd go to the Whitsundays, sailing most years,
surfing in Bali, being able to create memories for them has been a big thing
and I wouldn't have been able to do that if I didn't have that that 50 50
relationship or be able to transition away from my tribe.

[00:37:26]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

[00:37:26]

Steve Budgen:

In special police operations to
do what I did, you know, um, my daughter. She's the most pretty, feminine,
petite little thing, but she's crazy on drive to survive, Formula

[00:37:39]

Rosie Skene:

1. It's

[00:37:40]

Steve Budgen:

nuts.

[00:37:41]

So, um,

[00:37:42]

for her birthday
last year, I took her to Singapore. We had a great time at the Formula 1 there.
But

[00:37:48]

things like that,
um, the memories are really important to me, to, for the kids, um, but there's
that sacrifice and, , I can't remember his name off hand, it's a great book by
a guy called Sebastian Hung, I think it is, and it's a, it's a book called Tribe.

[00:38:11]

And it's actually
how humans interact in groups, and they talk a lot about American special
forces and things like that, and about transitioning away from that, and actual
loss of tribe, and how your loss of tribe, if you do suffer from PTSD, or
complex PTSD, um, It can be compounded by the loss of tribe and not talking to
people that get what you you're on about.

[00:38:36]

So I think that even
when I've transitioned, that's also played a big role in being able to pick up
the phone and talking to people that get it. , I yeah, so it's probably a
handful of people that. I talked to consistently, , about anything and everything
and we're all very similar with kids and things like that.

[00:38:58]

And I think that's
really, really important. And I wish that some of, , my friends that I've lost
along the way. could have seen that they had someone to talk to, , but they
didn't. And that's a struggle, that's a real struggle to try and get your head around,
, that loss of friends that didn't do what you've done to be able to treat and
keep a healthy headspace and keep it real.

[00:39:29]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, yeah, it's it's
heartbreaking. Um, people don't feel like they can reach out to others. And I
mean, I think we've definitely come a long way, especially within probably the
last 10 years in relation to mental health, especially for first responders and
veterans, and that it's it's much more widely accepted.

[00:39:50]

that that's
something that's really highly likely going to happen to you as a first
responder is you're going to develop some sort of mental health, , diagnosis
and that that's okay. Like, and you're not the only one. And I think that's,
you know, part of what drives me now is that I just want other people to know,
like you, I know.

[00:40:11]

that you're not the
only one, , and you don't have to sit with it by yourself. There's so many
people, , out there, especially friends and loved ones, like you say, that have
been there as well. And you don't have to even talk about things, but just know
that they understand.

[00:40:26]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah, absolutely, Rosie. And
this is the thing too, I think when I transitioned away from, um, policing in
my new world, I'd go to barbecues with accountants, lawyers, , Sales people, ,
people that just did not walk my walk and that's when it was really important
to be able to pick up the phone with someone who gets it and has been in the
trenches, so to speak, with yourself, who you've shared, , some challenges
with, um, because other people don't get it.

[00:41:04]

Rosie Skene:

It's so hard to describe though,
isn't it? Because like, we're, you know, we're all people, we're all just
people at the end of the day. But I find the same thing with myself. Um, and I
think it's funny because I think we're pretty good at picking. other first
responders in a crowd? I remember, um, when my daughter was in preschool, I
really was drawn to one of the mums and I had no idea who she was.

[00:41:27]

And after we got
talking, she was a paramedic. Um, and, and I was just like, well, of course
you're a first responder because I just, yeah, I don't know what it is, but
you've sort of like got a little radar, you know, you can, it just seemed a
little bit more normal to me than everyone else. Maybe. I don't know.

[00:41:41]

Steve Budgen:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Um,
yeah, it's an EQ thing, perhaps you'd even learn that from the cops, I don't
know, or in the, you know, whether you're a fiery, ambo, ex military person,
it's there's something there that you pick up along the way.

[00:41:57]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah,

[00:41:57]

Steve Budgen:

for sure. For sure.

[00:41:59]

Rosie Skene:

Do you have advice for people
that are thinking about making a transition out of a first responder role or
maybe that have been out for a while, even though it's not been their choice,
that are thinking about getting into some other kind of work?

[00:42:12]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah, absolutely. Um, it depends
why. I think my advice to be was reflect on why you do it, why you're thinking
about it, you know, are you thinking about it because, um, you feel unfulfilled
or you feel like you're transitioning into another aspect of your life.

[00:42:35]

Just make sure
you're doing it for the right reasons, but absolutely go for it, because, um,
yeah, sure, a service, you know, as a first responder can develop your
character, develop who you are, but it doesn't define who you are, you can step
away from that, you can reinvent yourself, and, you get one life.

[00:42:56]

And it goes so, so
quickly and I mean, for me, I want to cram as much in as I can and I think I've
done a pretty good job of that. I don't want to be, , still in the meal room at
the TAU. Oh, yeah. Imagine, imagine if we got out and did that, you know. Um,
because some of those people, even though it's like, don't get me wrong, if you
love what you do, go for it, but if you still have a burning itch to try and do
something else, or your hands forced because of whatever reason, you can
reinvent yourself and it's up to you to do it.

[00:43:32]

And, um, it's just
about believing in yourself and doing it and always keep learning. Yeah. So,
yeah, so my advice would be, uh, reflect on why you're doing it, but don't let
anything hold you back and give it a go because you'll never know. You don't want
to live with regret.

[00:43:51]

Rosie Skene:

No. I agree. You don't want to
live with regret.

[00:43:53]

I'd hate to look
back in 10 years and go, why didn't I just do that thing? Give it a go. Yeah.
Have a crack. What's the worst that can happen?

[00:44:01]

Steve Budgen:

You can go back.

[00:44:02]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah. That's it. Just, yeah, just
do what you were doing before. Um, something you did talk about that excited me
the other day, actually, is that you are doing a bit of yoga.

[00:44:11]

Yeah. Have you found
that?

[00:44:13]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah. Good. Um, I've actually
got a Pilate session at five 30 this afternoon with this great bunch of girls.
I'm new to it. It's, uh, limber on the South coast. And, um, another mate's got
me into it. Um, so yeah, it's good. I find it, I think it's, um, it relaxes me.
It gets me in the right head space.

[00:44:36]

Um, I, and I,
traditionally, I'm most. non flexible person going. I've always done lots of
weights, running, swimming, but always been terrible at stretching. And I've
found that, I've discovered that, I've, when you get to my age, I think it
happens if you've done what I've done most of my life physically.

[00:44:57]

I've got compressed
discs and the yoga's really, really helped with that. I think I was mentioning
to you also, , there's a, an organization called Talk To Me Bro. Yes. They're
developing a lot of momentum and they started on the South Coast with a close
friend who committed suicide and it's just gone gangbusters and they're just a
beautiful, beautiful group of people.

[00:45:18]

Um, and I've done
some sessions with those guys around breathwork and it can be a little bit
confronting to start with. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. , but. It is actually
amazing. It's really, really good stuff. But yeah, like I said, it's, , yeah,
it can be pretty confronting to start with, but you just got to get your head
around that and, , yeah, and just, uh, give it a crack.

[00:45:44]

And I found that,
that, that amazing as well. All these little tools in the golf bag. Yeah, just
to support you getting through, but nothing's more important than talking
though, talking to people.

[00:45:56]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, I agree. I like to think of
it, um, as you know, you have all these tactical options, , in the cops and
that's the same with mental health.

[00:46:06]

, and you can just,
you know, pick and choose, you know, you've probably got your core one or two
that you do like talk therapy or something like that, but then you can go into
yoga class or do a bit of breath work at home, , a bit of mindfulness, you know,
like there's, there's so many things that you can pick and choose in that
wheel.

[00:46:22]

Steve Budgen:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think,
um, and like just general exercise as well, like, uh, as, as one of the key
tools in that golf bag or, yeah. Yeah, yeah, tactical yoga options.

[00:46:37]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, yeah.

[00:46:38]

Steve Budgen:

I think for me, it doesn't
matter what it is, I find that, that, that really, really good as well. Whether
it's lifting, running, swimming, anything, I just find it, um, it does
something.

[00:46:51]

And maybe I've been
doing it my whole life since I joined the Navy, but it's, I find that if I do
something like that, I always feel better afterwards. Um, yeah, it's the, it's
the getting there to do it is a challenging bit for most people, I think. Um,
and I think the secret to it is not over engineering.

[00:47:14]

If it means going
for a five minute walk down the beach, you know, it doesn't need to be a five
kilometer run doing sub 20s or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah,

[00:47:24]

Rosie Skene:

I agree with that. I think, yeah,
we can put a bit of pressure on ourselves. It has to look like this or it has
to be that way. Just moving in bodies is where it's at.

[00:47:32]

Steve Budgen:

Absolutely.

[00:47:34]

It's just good to
talk to somebody who's, um, uh, who's thinking the same and I really respect
what you're doing. I think it's great if I can support it in any other way. I'd
love to jump on board. I'm trying to, I'm getting down to, um, We to catch up,
um, with Jason Frost, who's, um, an ex special forces guy from two commander
who does a lot of stuff in mental health for the veterans.

[00:48:02]

So I find it giving
back like that really helps me. , he's got a big, strong focus on, ,
alternative. Treatments for TBI traumatic brain injury, which is related to
some PTSD stuff. So, um, yeah, but no, it's just been a pleasure to have a
chat, Rosie. I really appreciate the opportunity. And, , yeah, just that for me
about my, my age now, I think it's about trying to give back, talking to people
like you and seeing where your journey can perhaps help.

[00:48:30]

Other people and
that learning from that. , so that's what I'm sort of focused on now on the
side. , whether it's doing a podcast, going, having a chat with veterans, ,
that sort of thing, if I can continue to do that, I'll feel like I'm giving
back, , to people that. I've also given so much.

[00:48:51]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, I love that.

[00:48:53]

Steve Budgen:

So one of the things that's
really, really helped me like heaps is the power of journaling. So I write all
little quotes down from all the crazy things, you know, five toxins,
complaining, criticizing, negative negativity, excuses, gossip, little mental
notes for myself, you know, talk less, be calm, observe more.

Um, don't mold and
bend other people's desires at the cost of your own. All these little snippets
that I get from everywhere, journaled them, but I also write. Um, lessons,
daily lessons learned from the day and that's been so awesome for me,
particularly when I work isolated in the highland jungles of PNG, at the end of
the day, I find this so good.

[00:49:43]

To do

Rosie Skene:

just gets everything out

[00:49:46]

Steve Budgen:

well, yeah, it goes to what
you're talking about that the power of writing down. I remember, um, a few
years ago, um, I got involved in a local writers group at Coaldale where I
lived and, um, I was the only guy. And it was like, um, um, it was just these
ladies who had written and then I talked about my first story I talked to them
was, um, my first 24 hours in Iraq and, um, and they were like, oh, wow, but
that's really good too.

[00:50:23]

And I'm just, I'm
starting to get back into a number of writers. But yeah, that's, yeah.

[00:50:29]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, I think, yeah, there's
something about journaling, , that I really like as well and I think for me,
uh, there's so much that goes on in my brain all the time that it's nice to
just offload some of it.

[00:50:43]

Steve Budgen:

That's why I do it as well.

So all of all the
airy fairy wisdom stuff at the back and in the front, I throw down my thoughts.
And also, what did I learn from today? What can I do better? Um, yeah, that's
because I'm like scatterbrained. I'm like,

[00:51:03]

Rosie Skene:

I Im the same

[00:51:04]

Steve Budgen:

a bit of a, like, a bit of
attention deficit disorder combined with a bit of complex PTSD.

[00:51:11]

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

[00:51:11]

Steve Budgen:

And that's like, um. It's a

Rosie Skene:

marriage made in heaven, isn't
it? With the thoughts that pop up. We're renovating our house. We're not
renovating, we're just sort of tidying it up a bit. And every, every other day
I'll say to my husband, Oh, so I had this thought. And I'll tell him, he's
like, just write it down.

So you don't have to
think about it anymore. Like, yes, I should write it down.

Steve Budgen:

And he sounds like a good
support network.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah, he's good. He's very good.
He's , ex defense as well and he was a Firey for a long time. So he's , very,
very good.

Steve Budgen:

Gets it. Yeah, that's good.

Rosie Skene:

Yeah.

Thank you so much.
And I know that people that listen, , that's why I love podcasting so much,
because people literally don't have to do anything and just listen to people
like yourself that have been to some crazy places and done some incredible
things, , and come out the other side, you know, and still doing incredible
things.

on the other side, ,
and have moved through that whole process and can say, , it's going to be okay.
You're going to be okay. , if you do decide to take a jump

Thank you so much
for coming on and being so vulnerable and sharing all of that with everyone,
because , I know people get so much out of it.

Steve Budgen:

Absolute pleasure, Rosie.

[00:52:18]

Rosie Skene:

I hope you've enjoyed today's
episode. If you have, make sure to hit subscribe so you never miss any new
ones. We release fresh content every Tuesday, and while you're there, take a
moment to leave us a review. I'll genuinely appreciate your thoughts. Don't
forget to connect with me on Instagram and Facebook at Tactical Yoga Australia
and share this episode with your friends, family, and work means to spread
inspiration.

[00:52:40]

Your support means
the world. My name is Rosie Skene join me again next week for another
empowering and positive episode of Try Off Beyond Trauma. Until then, be kind
to your mind and trust in the magic of your consistent and positive efforts.
Try off beyond Your trauma is closer than you think. Have the best week.