Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Triumph Beyond Trauma. I'm thrilled to introduce our guest, Officer B, whose story is truly inspiring. Officer B has been a police officer for 27 years, spent time in the Australian Defence Force and holds a master's in counterterrorism and security. 18 years into his career, he was involved in a critical incident that changed his life forever.

As a result, Officer B suffered life threatening physical injuries that he was able to overcome. But it was the psychological impacts that he fought so hard against that almost cost his life a second time. With the help of his family, friends, and medical team, Officer B was able to overcome many of his PTSD symptoms and start to lead a healthier life.

As a result, Officer B is now using his lived experience to help others through presentations and speeches. and gaining qualifications in mental health first aid and applied suicide intervention. Officer B is an ambassador for the Australian and New Zealand Mental Health Association, and in 2020, Officer B was awarded the Bravery Medal by Governor General David Hurley.

Today we discuss a critical incident that Officer B was involved in. Before we proceed, I want to emphasise that our discussion includes details of this incident from Officer B's perspective as one of the officers involved. Listener discretion is advised, especially if this topic may be triggering for you.

You can choose to skip over this segment, which runs from approximately the 12 minute mark to around 23 minutes. Despite the intensity of this conversation, Officer B shares his experiences with remarkable openness and generosity. There's a wealth of valuable insight to you making this episode well worth your time.

If you would like to learn more about Instagram and LinkedIn profiles in the show notes.

Without further ado, let's dive in.

INTRO:

  Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores journeys of resilience and hope. I'm Rosie Skene a yoga and breathwork teacher and founder of Tactical Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mum to three beautiful kids and a medically retired NSW police officer with PTSD, I understand the challenges of navigating mental health in the first responder and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together, we'll uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter more fulfilling life whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or just a friendly reminder that you're not alone, Triumph Beyond Trauma has got your back.

You matter, and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life starts right here.  

Rosie: Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Officer B: No worries. Thanks Rosie. Thanks for the invite.

Rosie: Yeah, absolutely. So I find people's backstories really interesting, , as to why they join organisations, , you know, like police or first responders. So I was just wondering if you could tell me a little bit about what led you in that direction.

Officer B: Uh, yeah, so I was working as a photographer, , in the RAF, and I got out, , in 93, I think, and went out doing, , photography.

On my own, I guess. And I was an assistant photographer around Melbourne. We were doing commercial photography and, and that sort of thing. And I guess I was pretty young at the time and I wasn't probably motivated enough to get out there and sort of push myself and sell myself. And I mean, I was getting a bit of work and, and, but I think I just. I just got to the stage where

I needed more or felt that I needed more of a full time sort of, and I thought about joining the police when I was at school but I never did because I joined the RAF and then Victoria Police were recruiting pretty heavily so I applied and In, I think it was 95, and then started, started the academy in 90, April 96.

Rosie: Yeah, okay. And what's that academy like? Is it, a very long process if they're recruiting?

Officer B:In the day, it took a while for me to get in. Probably not as automated now as it, then as it is now.

The internet wasn't really about, so it was all, Telephone calls and letters and, uh, and that sort of thing and sitting and written handwritten exams and that. So there was no sort of computer based anything. So, um, yeah, I don't know. It just, it took a probably, I don't know, six or seven months, I guess, when my application to the time that I started.

Um, and then. And I think it was, so he started in April and finished in September, so I think it was about, what's that, eight or nine months.

Rosie: Yeah, okay. And where did you go from there?

Officer B: Uh, from the academy, went to, just into town, into Melbourne, to the head, headquarters, and just general duties policing around there.

And then, uh, out to Avondale Heights for 18 months or so and then after my two years, initial two years was up, went to Sunshine, which was a bit of an eye opener and pretty busy. And so I was there, I think, maybe three years and then went out to Crime Scene, uh, to the major crime scene unit at the Forensic Science Centre.

So used be able to use my photography skills out there too, so that, which was good. , and I was out there probably about five years. Yeah, right. And had enough of, of seeing death day in, day out. You know, going to multiple, you know, homicide scenes and, and that sort of thing. And, had the opportunity to get into Intel, um, in 2005.

So I did that and. And that's where I sort of stayed until, I moved over to the AFP in 2013. So, you know, sort of, I was at local CI, CIDs, uh, at Intel and then interstate Intel, , where, you know, security intelligence group and, um, crime and, and those sort of places and then had the opportunity to go to, out to the airport in a joint team with a. the Australian Federal Police

In 2012 and then, had a lateral transfer. So I applied for that and got accepted and started in the, AFP in September, 2013.

Rosie: Yeah, right. How interesting that you'd, um, moved around into a few different roles and, and so when you went over to AFP, were you still, , was it an intelligence role where were you there.

Officer B: Yeah, so while I was out at the airport in the, in the, the joint team, it was a bit weird because we were seconded, went out there seconded to the AFP, but, we were sworn in as AFP members. So we were pretty much sort of, I guess, leave without pay from Victoria Police for the time we were there. But then, when I applied and got accepted to the lateral program, so I was still in Intel up to that point, I went and did the lateral program, then when I came back to Melbourne, I went back to the airport, but in an investigative role.

Right. So, um, it was a bit of a, bit of a change to, to what I'd been used to over the last, sort of hadn't really done any investigations As an investigator, since I left Sunshine, so it was, you know, probably 13 or so years since I'd done any of that, so it was a bit of a, bit of a change.

Rosie: How was, how was that, getting back into it after , that break?

Officer B:Yeah, it was a bit weird. Um, I still, I think I still preferred the intel side of things because it was just, I enjoyed the investigation side of things, but I think I more enjoyed the, , helping the investigators out and, and doing the intel, that, that intel side and trying to, Trying to find things that would help with the investigation rather than the investigation itself.

Yeah. But you know, so be, I knew that was the case before we, before I went over to the, the AFP so, you know, it was, it was, I mean, it was a change. So it was, yeah, it was good. So I stayed at the airport, I think for about 12 months and then a job came up in counterterrorism in town. And I put into that, sort of, I was finishing off my Masters in Counterterrorism and Security at Charles Sturt Uni, and that's sort of where I wanted to go. So, sort of, it came up, uh, Right at the right time, so I applied and, and got started that role on the 1st of September 2014.

Rosie: What interested you about the counterterrorism? Was it that, of analysing that you enjoyed with Intel, um, and finding out that sort of stuff? Or was it something different?

Officer B:Yeah, I think, always sort of, I think I was always interested in national security. So I think, yeah, just doing that, that Masters and then, uh, and, you know, terrorism was, you know, a pretty hot topic at the time.

Rosie: Absolutely.

Officer B: Uh, you know, leading up to that from 2001 really, isn't it? Yeah. So, um, And then, you know, ISIS coming in in 2014 and, and everything happening around, around that. So, I guess it was, yeah, it was probably coming from that intel background and then , looking into the national security side of things that really piqued my interest and, and then having the opportunity to go and actually work in what I'd been studying.

It was sort of another, another plus too, I guess, so it's, um, it, it worked out perfectly I guess you could say. Yeah. Yeah. And you, did you enjoy your time there? Yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, it was sort of when we had a lot of foreign travellers, you know, heading over to the Middle East and, you know, wanting to fight it off with ISIS and, um, it was pretty busy . There was never a dull moment, really, so we, it went, it was good, and I was over there with a few mates that I'd done a lateral course with, and, uh, , it was interesting and a lot of work, but, uh, I thought, you know, this is great. I was in my last subject of my master's, so I was sort of finishing that off and moving into the, into a role that where I could use it. .

Rosie: Yeah. How good that. You could just sort of slide right in after you'd done all that study and, and putting it all into practice, I guess, everything that you'd just learned.

Officer B: Yeah. And I guess you also look back and go, academia is not. I mean, academia is academia in your study and then you sort of see things from the ground and practically and it's where you can apply it.

It's also a little bit different too. So you sort of get to see it from both sides, which is a. Which is a good thing too. Yeah.

Rosie: I Know that you had a big, job, , with counter terrorism. Did you want to talk about that?

Officer B: Yeah, sure. So, like I said, I started at the joint counterterrorism team on the 1st of September, 2014. And I was there about three weeks and we got a, a job to go and speak to a, a young bloke, uh, Numan Haider, who ASIO had been looking at for a few months. And we had some info to go talk to him.

On the Monday, the 22nd, but there's a few things that happened and we didn't have enough numbers, so it was put off until the The 23rd and, and then, then four of us went out to, to have a chat with him, uh, at his, he lived out Endeavour Hills and went out to have a, have a chat with him out there just to, just to see where his head was at, you know, and I've spoken about it previously, but we didn't have any.

or any, anything like that. He, it was more so just to find out where he was, uh, where his headspace was. Um, he'd made some sort of veiled threats, , against the prime minister was looking up where he was. Traveling and, , and had his passport cancelled by ASIO and so, and, and he was also hanging around with a few, um, or hanging around at places that were known for, , extremists, I guess.

Yeah. And so that's where he sort of come up on ASIO's radar and, and we went out just to speak to him, just to see if we could. Find out what his intentions were, maybe see if he would, tell us what, what he was doing or whether he'd heard anything or, and when I guess just to let him know that we, we were looking at him and, you know, maybe that might put the brakes on anything that he was planning. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, still more information gathering and what his demeanour was and that sort of thing.

Um, we went out and went out to chat with his mum and dad who were also concerned, um, with, with his recent behaviours and to the point where his dad had gone and spoken to someone at the local mosque and said don't hang around with him, you know, um, because they were, they'd seen changes in, in him and they were a really, really good family and they've. So his mum and dad were there and his two brothers and, you know, they spoke pretty openly about, , their concerns and, , about what, what they saw Numan was up to. And when I guess we were there for about an hour or so and we went back to the police station and decided to give him a call to see if he would come in and have a chat with us.

Yeah. So a partner. I called him and he answered and there's a bit of to and fro conversation about whether he would come into the police station and have a chat or, or, or not. Initially he wanted to meet us at Hungry Jack's, but It's not really a nice place to talk to a terrorist suspect with little kids running around and that sort of thing.

That wasn't ideal and so we said, no, we don't think that's appropriate. You know, we want you to come into the police station and we told him he wasn't under arrest or anything like that. That was just to have a conversation and eventually. He decided that he'd, he'd come in, uh, I think that phone call was at about quarter past seven that night, and he said he'd be in in about half an hour, and about half past seven, he called and said he was there, out in the car park, but didn't want to come into the police station, and so, between the four of us, we discussed what we'd do, and we thought, he's here, so let's go and have a chat with him, It's better that he's here than not, so we, but we'll keep it fairly low key, just the two of us will go out and have a chat and sort of reassure him that he wasn't under arrest and then try and get him to come into the police station into a soft interview room and just, just have a chat with us in there.

But we weren't too concerned that even talking to him out in the car park. So. Either way, it didn't really sort of bother us too much. So the, the two of us went out, the other two stayed inside. We just, we didn't want, you know, four of us to go out and, you know, um, seem like we're overpowering him and, you know, and, and that sort of thing.

So, yeah, we went out and we shook hands and, Um, introduced ourselves and while we were doing that, he reversed his car into the car park at the, at the Little Stars, um, child care centre, which is adjoining the Endeavour Hills Police Station. And as you walk, , my partner put his, his folder and notepad on the, on the bonnet of the car and I walked around to the driver's side just to have a look in.

In the car, because we knew that he was with some mates that day. So, they just didn't want someone jumping out of the car and surprising us. And, so,, my partner was at the front of the car having a chat with, with Numan while I was looking in. And I heard, I heard him say, I heard my mate, my partner say, I'm gonna search you.

Because there was reporting that he'd been, um, looking, buying knives. So we We just wanted to make sure that, you know, that he didn't have any knives, and that was the reason we took his hand to start with, so he took his hand out of his pocket, you know, he wasn't carrying anything, obviously, at the time, but, um, so, yeah, so I asked him, or told him he was going to search him, heard Numan say why, and then, as he sort of said that, I've looked up, and my partner wasn't there, so I was .I was a bit confused, I guess, at the time. And Numan had turned to face me. So he was at the front of his, sort of the front corner of the car, and I was at the driver's side door. So it's two meters away, I guess. And he was holding a knife just at his waistband. And I was still a bit confused as to where my partner was.

And, um, And then at that point, and it was quite weird, my hearing failed. So it's called auditory exclusion. This went deathly silent. And apparently I yelled out knife. And then, uh, Numan came at me. And we started struggling and fighting and, you know, two metres away. Doesn't take very long to cover that distance.

So I had, I was just sort of forced, uh, fending them off with my, with my left arm trying to get my gun out. And no, cause as you know, training. Yeah. So all I'm thinking of is I've got to get my gun out. He's got a knife, got to create some distance. And so we, we, as we were doing that sort of moved back around.

Just trying to create that distance and I went to ground, uh, just to give myself some time to, um, to get my gun out and use my legs to sort of keep him away. But as I've gone to ground, he sort of, he walked around behind me, so between me and the, in the childcare centre. Um, so that, there was no one at the childcare centre at the time, it was just him.

30 at night or whatever and, uh, he's a walk around behind me and he was leaning over me to, to stab me and I'm positive and I gathered evidence in the coroner's inquest that he, that his intent was to, to behead us. And put it on, on video and, you know, send it out all over the world. Yeah. As they'd want to do.

And as he was leaning over me to, to stab me some more, my partner had regained his feet and he, um, he fired a shot and hit Haider in the top of the head and, and killed him instantly. And that was the next thing that I heard, was that gunshot. So everything else prior to that was, was silent. I Haider fell next to me and, um, it was just sickening thud I guess, as he hit the ground.

And my partner asked me if I was okay. I said, yeah, at the time I thought I was. And he, um, he said, oh, you know, go and get some ambulances. So, Ben, uh, I don't know why he didn't, he'd only been stabbed twice, but, anyway, I got up and, and jogged inside and that's into the, back into the police station, into the watch house, just to tell them what had happened and, and whatever, and that was when I realised I had been stabbed.

I felt blood running down the side of my face and my chest was a bit, a bit sore and I went inside and freaked out a few of the people in the watch house and, um, got the ambulance, called the ambulances and went back outside to check on my partner and, and then, uh, I went back into the police station and that's where we started getting first aid and the ambulance arrived.

Um, so it turned out that he'd, um, he was stabbed twice. In his left arm. So when he said, I'm going to search the Haider's had his hands, he pulled out an eye from his pocket and, um, that he had in there previously and stabbed, stabbed him twice in the arm and he thought he'd been punched. So he, that's why he sort of went back and went to ground.

Um, and was protecting his gun, and that's when he Haider turned to me, and then it worked, it turned out that he'd stabbed me five times during that, say, twice in the left shoulder, twice in the left side of my face, and once in the centre of my chest, which went into my liver. That was the life threatening part of it, uh, the liver injury, uh, but, you know, we were fortunate the ambulances got there fairly quickly and, um, got us both off to hospital and surgery and everything else that night.

So, yeah, we were fairly lucky.

Rosie: Wow, yeah, like incredibly lucky that it, , he didn't get you anywhere else. Yeah. So how's, how was your recovery after that? Um, extensive, I can imagine like it would have taken a while for you to be back on your feet ?

Officer B: Yeah. I was in hospital. Uh, about a week, I think. So, that was a Tuesday.

I think I was home the Sunday or Monday. Um, the physical recovery was reasonably okay. Um, a lot of physio on my, on my shoulder and, um, just getting that working back because it was, They just, the surgeon described it to me as a, like a fully shoulder reconstruction. So it severed some tendons in there and um, I think it was a rotator cuff tendon and whatever else that had to be repaired.

So it was a lot of, um, physio in getting back to being able to, , Get any sort of range in my shoulder. It's still not right now, yeah, so it was physio and exercise physiology for, you know, twice a week for plus exercises and all that sort of stuff for, for a couple of years, I guess. And, and also, um, the, you know, the psych sessions and, you know, everything that went along with, with that.

So, you know, mindfulness sessions and, you know, trying to, um, just trying to deal with, with the trauma and the time that the trauma was, you know, at the time it was okay to deal with it. I guess, yeah, it was sort of pretty pragmatic and I've been stabbed and I've got to fix myself and make sure that I don't go too far, too far backwards and yeah, just, I tried to do the best I could, I guess.

And I don't think at times I did, but, um, you know, because my marriage ended a couple of years later, early 2016, and, and, you know, I wasn't a very nice person leading up to that and into the inquest and, You know, the sons took a fair brunt of that, you know, they'd breathe wrong or, you know, just do something minor and I'd lose my shit, um, you know, and I was just angry all the time and ex-wife quite rightly so, thought, you know, this is not good enough, um, and actually supported me a lot throughout the attack, but.

You know, it, yeah, it was, and there's probably a lot that happened, there was a lot that happened before that, and that wasn't the only reason, but yeah, I think the attack was the, or the way that I was acting was pretty much the, the final straw. So that marriage, well, marriage ended, and that was, and fortunately I was able to, I'd booked, I'd booked in to do the Kokoda track.

At the end of April, which was after the, the inquest ended and I did that on those eight days of walking through the mountains of Papua New Guinea. And I did a lot of soul searching and, and a lot of self reflection on how i'd acted as a, as a father and a husband and, you know, it was pretty confronting and it's really, it's hard to be honest with yourself like that.

Um, and know that when you are honest, you know, , it comes with a lot of pain when you know that he hasn't been the best person and, and by the end of it. I'd, you know, come to the realisation that she was right and everything, you know, and it was the best decision she could have ever made was to to end the marriage and, um, and, you know, I was then able to move, move on from that to be I guess to be a better person within be myself, but also be a better father and all around better, yeah, all around better person.

Rosie: Yeah. So you're able to get that like acknowledgement of yourself and say, yeah, you know, yeah. And I've had it myself and it's, it's not until you have those like realisations really, is it all like epiphanies or whatever people want to call them, that you're like, okay, yep, that's happened. And you know, You have to put your hand up and say, yeah, that was me. And it does enable you to move on though. And, you know, so from there, what's, what's happened since then for you?

Officer B: That was 2016. I'd started sort of a new relationship, July of that year, 2016. And everything was going along nicely, and then I got, I think, actually over to New Guinea, um, to Port Moresby for APEC.

And Uh, Papua New Guinea hosting APEC in 2018 and, uh, the boss that I had in Melbourne, he was the, now the boss over for the AFP and in Port Moresby and got me over there and I was back into an Intel role and it was probably the best job. I reckon I've, I've had since I've been in policing. . And, and it was, it was just, it was great.

You know, a lot of autonomy and we were doing a lot of great work over there. And, and then my, my girlfriend at the time, she got, she was in the AFP, she also got posted over there. So everything was great. Everything was going great except I was away from my sons and my family.

And then mid or early 2018, uh, that relationship ended and And I, I think I was using that as a bit of a, as a bit of a band aid solution to to everything that was going on, um, like psychologically. Because once, when that ended, um, it was just this downhill spiral. And I, uh, you know, started, you know, uh, dreaming about the, the attack and not sleeping, you know, all this stuff started to come back, which I thought I'd dealt with quite, quite well.

And obviously it was, as you said, bubbling away. And,, After a couple of months, I had to come back to Australia and, um, I walked in to my psychologist and who I'd sort of stayed in contact with. We'd done some Zoom sessions while I was away and, um, I walked into the, her office and after about five minutes, she said, no, you're not going back.

You got, you've got PTSD. And to be honest, that was a massive relief. I was scared of. I knew something was going on when I was in PNG, but, and I said to my mate in a text message, I said, I'm scared of those four letters and, um, I get back. and get diagnosed with it. And, and instead of being afraid of it, I guess I was more relieved that I knew that I wasn't imagining what I was going through and how dark and it was just, um, it was a really, really, really dark, hard time, uh, leading up to that and, and after, of course, but at least I knew that there was something that You know, we could start treatment for and try and get better.

Um, I mean, it took a, it took a long time, um, you know, months and months and months of just trying to break through. Um, trying to see some light at the end of the tunnel, even if it was a pinprick, you know, and I just thought it would never, ever, ever happen. Uh, and, you know, that later that year, my dad died, um, after a really short bout with cancer.

So, I think that was in November. So it was really, it wasn't a, 2018 wasn't, wasn't a very nice year. Yeah. Um, and I was, so I was traveling up to mom and dad's up in. In New South Wales and Melbourne quite a bit just to see, to see Dad and, you know, and all that. And, you know, I remember saying to Mum one day, look, I've got to get back, you know, because the boys are back in Melbourne, my two sons are back in Melbourne.

Um, so my ex wife is still down in Melbourne. so I've got to get back to the boys, you know, and she said, but you can't, you can't look after someone until you're well enough yourself. And, you know, and it. You know, probably to reflect on that and, and like I said, you know, I've done, I did that reflection on, on the Kokoda Track and, and then through the PTSD and, and, and everything else.

And, and unfortunately it took something like that to really open my eyes to. How important some people and things are to me before that. I'd never told my mom that I loved her. And, um, and I mean, I told my sons that, but it was, it was different. And, and I look back and tell my Fiance now. And, you know, how, how I probably wouldn't change

what happened because it's made me a much better person than when I was beforehand. And I think she's seen that, and my kids have seen it, and we're not kids anymore there. 21 and 24. So, but I think they've, they've seen it and, you know, and family and friends have also seen that change of, you know, this person walking around with a skin of tar over them having no emotions and, you know, not being able to be happy or sad or anything to now being able to, I'm not perfect and, and, you know, still have effects of it.

Rosie: But Yeah. Yeah. And just what you were saying before, you know, , getting someone saying to you, like, that you get that diagnosis, it is, , I had the same thing. It was one of the greatest reliefs of my life, , because I had been in my own head for so long. , and outwardly I presented very well and I, I always have, um, so I felt like no one would ever believe me.

Like. I was going crazy, you know, and then for someone to say, Oh no, no. Yeah. You have PTSD. It, um, yeah, exactly. Like you said, like, okay, now I can do something about this because I know what it is. Um, and I, yeah, I just, unfortunately until, you know, like, you don't know what that's like for a person. Um, so I really understand what you're saying there with that., feeling a bit lighter after a diagnosis, which you don't think is going to happen because you're something like, I know, I certainly thought, you know, it's not going to get me, it won't get me. , and then, yeah, and well, it did. And I was sort of, yeah, I'm very happy to get a diagnosis. ,

Officer B: Yeah. Yes. And I, and I think, um, like you said, you, uh, it'll never get me.

And I was, I always thought it'll never happen to me. Like I never, I'm never going to get attacked at work or even though I'm a police, I was a police officer and no, it'll never happen. You know, I'll be okay. Whereas I think we should all, when we go into jobs like that, you know, we should prepare ourselves and we should think it could happen to me.

What will we do when I say we, you know, including your family and what, you know, what, what will we do if it does happen and prepare for that. And. it was at the, you know, the frontline mental health conference where, when Malcolm, , Captain from the Army was talking about exactly that, and, um, it made so much sense to, I mean, we all hope it doesn't happen to you or something tragic doesn't happen to you, but preparing yourself for that, I think is, is, is really important.

And that's something that, you know, we should all do as police officers or fireys or ambos or whatever, you know, field you're working in is, you know, get ready for. Or, you know, just have your family prepared and yourself prepared for something like that does happen. We're ready to go.

Rosie: Yeah, absolutely. When I was listening to that talk as well with Malcolm and I thought the exact same thing. You know, You do join those jobs and you know, the risk, but deep down, I don't think we acknowledge it enough. Like you say, and, um, I certainly never had that conversation, you know, with my husband, my kids are way too little.

Um, but I, I never had, you know, if something happens to me, you know, what are you going to do next? And what does that look like for you? so I really appreciated Malcolm talking about that because we certainly don't do that enough. No, not at all. And, uh, you know, I was sort of, I guess I was fortunate enough to meet someone, my current partner's fiancee, uh, sort of towards the end of 2019.

So after I'd been off work with PTSD and been back and then she sort of stuck by me through, you know, Coming, coming out of that and doing the PTSD course at Austin Hospital and knowing my background and what happened to me and, and, and, and having that support from her also helped. But I never, I still never, still never even spoke about that then.

And I guess, you know, I've given presentations before about, , I never thought it, and I say I never thought it happened to me, but it did. And, and until that, and until Malcolm spoke about that, you know, it's now conversations that, you know, probably null and void now because I'm, I've been off work for quite some time and, you know, and probably won't be going back, but, um, it's definitely something that, you know, get people to, to, to talk about.

Rosie: Yeah. Yeah. So important. So you just mentioned that you've, , done a bit of speaking. Is that, , something that you're going to keep doing moving forward from here? Is that what that looks like for you ?

Officer B: Yeah. I, I think it's, yeah, it is important, , for me in that it's quite cathartic and I get a lot out of it, but I also hope that what I, when I do talk and, and what I speak about, , gets people thinking and, and listening about stuff, I guess, that, you That we can go through and like we said, you know, you've got to prepare yourself for these sort of things that in the event that you do have to go through something that you are prepared and if, if, you know, if I can put my story out there and, and the challenges and that I've had plus the, the positives, like the post traumatic growth and, and it doesn't make it as hard a topic to talk about.

Yourself or with others, because I think we we're probably all very, nah, I'm all right. I'm, I'll deal with it. I'll, I'm, I'm tough and, you know, whatever. But being able to, I guess, you know, to, to admit that you, you do need some help or that you're not okay, is, is important to be able to recognise, but also knowing that you can, that you, that you can have support with your family, your friends.

And hopefully work, , and medical practitioners and, and, and whoever else, but also, , but also knowing that there is hope and that people who have gone through some really, really dark times. While we don't go through the same things as each other and I would never assume to know what someone else has been through and how difficult it has been for someone else, there is hope and I think I've spoken to someone once and said, you know, I never could see the light at the end of the tunnel, ever.

I never thought that there would be this outcome. I thought I'd just be in this bubble. Dark, dark, dark place for forever. And then there was a pinprick of light and then it disappeared and then it was back again and then it disappeared and then it got a little bit bigger, then that disappeared. So it was, I guess it was a bit like climbing Mount Everest.

You'd sort of go up to from base camp, big camp one and back again, and then up to one and then up to two and then back to one and then back to base camp and you just tick tacking and tick tacking until you can get to the, you know, to the top of the mountain. And that's what it was like for me.

It took a couple of years to, to be able to, to be able to, I guess, to get to the end of the tunnel. I don't think I'm out of the tunnel, but sort of standing in that archway, seeing that there is positivity out there and, and having such an awesome, you know, an awesome Fiancee and, and people around you makes it so much better and, I guess, easier to.

To deal with, because when you have your bad days, you know, they're there and, while they probably don't fully understand what you've been through, they're still there to support you and take it on board and help you take those steps forward. So if I can, if I can put some positivity out there and let people know that there is hope.

Then that's what I'd like to continue to do.

Rosie: Yeah, and you do, like, I loved listening to you talk, , last week and, you know, it's so inspiring, , despite everything that you've been through, um, that you can still, you know, get up in front of a group of people and talk about it and give other, and do exactly what you want to do and give other people hope that even though you might get stuck, um, Like in the mud or in, in your black cloud or whatever people call it, um, they can be like that light.

And although, like you say, it's not linear, , it's not just like a straight line through that tunnel. Like the tunnels got like little bends and curves and like goes back on itself. And, , but it's a journey and it's so worth it. I think, , to keep pushing and, and to keep getting to that light a little bit more each time.

Um, yeah. Yeah. So I thank you so much because I've really enjoyed, , hearing you speak and I've really enjoyed having you on today. There's so many people out there, you know, , even just with this podcast telling. Getting other people to tell their stories as well that, you know, there is hope out there and it can get better and post traumatic growth is a real thing and I was talking to Alana from Emerge & See last week and, um, I actually found it really empowering when I heard that term, post traumatic growth, because it's, I thought it was something that I was just always going to be stuck in this

I'll have this post traumatic stress disorder for the rest of my life and it would never, ever change. And I would just sort of always be there in the background, but it's actually, you know, moved and morphed and turned into something pretty amazing almost, you know, and, um, I certainly wouldn't have been here without the trauma that I've been through. So yeah, I guess it's, , it's not great when you're there, but something good can come of it.

Officer B: Yeah, and when you look back and, like I said, I think it, I don't, I'm glad in a way that it did happen because I've been able to, To go through that post traumatic growth, and I probably wouldn't be the person I am today without that, and you know, and if I can just give you this quote, , from Marcus Aurelius, who was a Roman emperor, and part of it says, , You know, get active in your own rescue, however that may be, and I think, , taking those little steps forward is, is really, really important and being able to, to know that there is something there and that something positive will come is, , is really, really important to know and, and not to give up on, on yourself if you're, you know, you're feeling low or, you know, there's always someone. .

You know, that will talk to you or whether it's a friend or a helpline or whatever. Yeah, I just, you know, I hate hearing the statistics and seeing on online that someone else's died because of mental health and it's really quite sad and, um, happens far too often. So, yeah, if we can all take that little step forward and help someone else, that's, that's great.

That's what we need to do, I think.

Rosie: Yeah, absolutely. I think we'll have to leave it there, because that was beautiful. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Officer B: Thanks, Rosie. I appreciate it. Thanks for the invite.

OUTRO

  I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, make sure to hit subscribe so you never miss any new ones. We release fresh content every Tuesday. And while you're there, take a moment to leave us a review. I would genuinely appreciate your thoughts. Don't forget to connect with me on Instagram and Facebook at Tactical Yoga Australia and share this episode with your friends, family and workmates to spread inspiration.

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