Rosie Skene: Hello, and welcome to episode 12 of Triumph Beyond Trauma I am so thrilled that you could be here and we have a cracker episode for you today before we get stuck in, I'd like to mention quickly that the next launch. Is happening in June of my program, the first responder mental wellness method. And to celebrate, I will be hosting a three day event to coincide with the launch week. You'll be able to get a taste of what our program offers before taking the leap and going all in on your mental wellness journey.

There will be more details to follow it. And I can't wait to share it with you guys. First dibs on the program, we'll go out to the wait list and you can join that by heading over to tacticalyogaaustralia.com. forward slash waitlist. I will add the link to the show notes.

This program is like no other it's created by a first responder for other first responders, veterans, and frontline workers who wants to have more control of their journey? To build resilience and to finally feel calm, happy, and able to leave this one beautiful life that we have.

I've been there in the depths of mental illness and I've clawed my way back out using the exact same techniques that I teach in the program. I am so passionate about the mental health of those that put themselves in the line to protect their community and country. So head on over to the website, tacticalyogaaustralia.com to check it. All out. Righto.

My guest, this. This week is. Is Sergeant. Mark Thomas. Mark. Is a 28 year member of Victoria police who has lived a significant mental health journey for two decades. He was seriously mentally injured on 8th of April, 2003. And without any mental health education he was hospitalized. On 10th of February, 2013. And diagnose that with post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety and depression. It was primarily due to Mark's lack of mental health education that caused him to fail, to recognize the signs and symptoms.

Whilst mark was in hospital. He felt intensely alone while he plummeted into a very dark world and built indescribable mental pain. However, thanks to some very talented psychologist and psychiatrist coupled with a desire to recover. Mark is now functioning well and eventually returned to full-time work. After feeling alone whilst hospitalized. Mark co-created the code nine foundation, a registered and purely volunteer run charity. That supports his colleagues and their families as they travel on their own mental health journey.

Mark is still highly vulnerable in certain situations, he has his bad days. However, his determination in spreading positive mental health messaging is a passion of his. Mark is a very positive person and very grateful for the incredible support he's been afforded throughout his. recovery and recognizes the importance of education and breaking down the stigma that surrounds mental health. And to show that growth from trauma is not only possible, but very achievable. Let's get into it.

INTRO

Welcome to Triumph Beyond Trauma, the podcast that explores journeys of resilience and hope. I'm Rosie Skene a yoga and breathwork teacher and founder of Tactical Yoga Australia. As a former soldier's wife, mum to three beautiful kids and a medically retired NSW police officer with PTSD, I understand the challenges of navigating mental health in the first responder and veteran community.

Join us for incredible stories from individuals who've confronted the depths of mental illness and discovered their path to happiness and purpose, as well as solo episodes and expert discussions. Together, we'll uncover the tools to help you navigate your journey toward a brighter future. Whether you're looking for helpful insights, practical tips, or just a friendly reminder that you're not alone, Triumph Beyond Trauma has got your back.

You matter, and your journey to a happier, more meaningful life starts right here.

 Rosie Skene: Thank you so much for coming on the show, Mark.

Mark Thomas: Thanks for having me, Rosie. Great to be here.

Rosie Skene: I'd like to start with people's backstories and how they came to join the police or the army or whatever their service is. Would you like to tell us a little bit about your story?

Mark Thomas: Yeah, so there's no first responders in my family, but it was something that it just sort of came in an idea, but I suppose in my teens, late teens, But I also wanted to be a mechanic, so I kind of thought, you know what, I'll be a mechanic first, and when I got sick of that, I'll, , head into, well, I'll apply for the Victoria Police and see how I go, and after being a mechanic for, I think, about five years, I, Put in the application form, but I failed the spelling in the first test, so I had to, I had to wait six months until I could apply again.

So during that six months, the old man would pull out the dictionary nearly every night and throw 20 words at me so I could learn how to spell properly. The beauty of being at a year 11 tech school, educated boy. Why I went in, I think it's most of it was I just wanted to help people get over there. There was a, if I can help them out, then that'd be pretty cool. That stems from my mom died of cancer when I was eight. So I know what it's like to grow up without a parent. And, you know, I had some friends who's. Grandmother, the grandfather died and they'd come to me and ask like questions about when they lose a loved one.

And I was able to just tell them my, what I thought, this is how I go about things and, you know, to be able to help people through their Tough times is pretty rewarding and that's, you're turning a negative situation, you're getting some positivity out of it. So, I think that it's just a natural draw towards the police so I could do that as a career, basically.

Rosie Skene: Mark, you said that you joined because you wanted to help people and that's something that, uh, really resonated with me because that's the reason that I joined as well. I just felt like I wanted to be a service to my community and I wanted to be helpful and also get paid to be helpful is a pretty, um, big gig if you can do that. So do you find that that's been fulfilled for you in your job?

Mark Thomas: Yeah, for the, for the most part, what, what did catch me off guard, though, and I wasn't expecting this and it took a little bit to sort of get a new reference point to and be able to accept it was like when the heroin toll was off its, off the charts in the late 90s, early 2000s, we'd go to overdoses every couple of days.

Like it was just, it was, well, it was horrific how many people were dying, it was matching the road toll. But, but then my sort of brain at that stage was going, well, You had a choice, and now it killed you, but my mum didn't have a choice, and that's, that was hard to comprehend what was going on, but, you know, and that's no disrespect to those people, I mean, one of the, one of the things I never did was treat a drug addict disrespectfully, because what could I possibly do or say to make their life worse than what it already is?

I must be in a horrific situation to be in that's certainly, I don't agree with what they do to get money to buy drugs and things like that, but if you take all that back, you know, like, they don't take the drugs to die, they take the drugs to get high, but. You know, they had a choice to do it, and they still went through with it, and they died, and like, my mum didn't have a choice, so, but I've, you know, I evened that out, and that's, that's part of life, was basically, now I, I come to terms with that, but like, I've had some, some instances over the years with, with the public, with victims, and things like that, You know what, I've put this smile on people's faces and that's, that's, that's one of the most powerful things you can do, I reckon.

Rosie Skene: I agree. Well, it's so nice that you can say that you've gotten what you wanted in that respect. So if we rewind a little bit. And after you passed your spelling test, how did you find a recruitment and joining and Victoria Police College? How was that for you?

Mark Thomas: I actually really enjoyed it. Uh, I remember going in my first day and, and I knew a few people that are already members and they say, you wake up the first morning in the academy and they're out there on their marching and, you know, all the drills being done.

It's a real fright to the system and it's like, it's quite scary. But I remember waking up on the Monday morning. And just, I hear him doing drill and the senior instructor yelling out instructions. I just loved it. I thought, beauty, finally, I'm here. After, you know, the process to go through and get in, even though it's not as long as what it is now, but it's still, you know, you just want to get there and get the training going. So, I really enjoyed the academy. 20 weeks. Physicality was good. Come out pretty fit, which was good. Learning stuff. Every day, law and various things just that, I mean, you know, just touching on it basically, a whole going through with the squad and the sister squad. We end up graduating with the second lowest ever at that stage.

So, we had a lot of people either side squadded to, so I was 15 of 96, we had 3 that were sent over to 16, whatever reason, I don't know why, because if you're going to do anything, you've got to back squad people, not side squad them. So, I didn't understand that, but we had a lot. They were back squatted. So to do an extra couple of weeks because they'll fail some exams and we had, you know, X amount that just resigned and didn't want to do it anymore.

So I graduated with 10 people, 10 people. Yeah. So we started with 24, uh, and 28 people all. Came and went out of our squad, or stayed, so, so yeah, it was, it was, it was amusing. That's a tight group, isn't it, ten? Yeah, yeah, and I think there's one, two, three, four, so I think there's only six of us left, that are still serving.

Yeah, right. 28, 28 years later, so. Wow. But yeah, I don't know what the smallest was ever, but yeah, we were at that stage, the second lowest ever. Yeah. There's a squad. What are, I don't know much about Victorian Police recruitment, what are they like now? Are they still got small classes, or do they? No, I think they're still going in the mid twenties, each squad that goes through, but it's a, I think it's a 33 week program now, whereas I did 20, so, and they get sworn in sort of halfway through.

And then they start to, like, they'll go out to a station for a week or something and then come back and then just, it allows for a few extra things to take place. So, yeah, the training, training's a fair bit different, but, you know, 28 years later, of course, things are going to change. And, but yeah, overall good experience, really good experience.

Rosie Skene: Where did you head to from the college?

Mark Thomas: We start at what was then called City Patrol Group, which is now Melbourne East, and that's where you lean your traffic direction. Which was, I found it so much easier if they just turned the lights off, or just do amber flashing. Because when you start, you're out there directing to a green light and then directing to a red light, but then people get confused.

Am I looking at the lights or am I looking at the coppers? Yeah. So when they put it on flash, everyone just stopped. Okay. Now I mean, uh, are you familiar with hook turns in Melbourne?

Rosie Skene: Yeah. A funny story. I went to Melbourne as a small child with my parents from New South Wales and My dad, you know, used to lose it at the best of times in traffic in our small country town. So heading down to Melbourne and then, , moving left to turn right, just set him off the rails. So yeah.

Mark Thomas: I, I don't think they exist anywhere. I've never seen them anywhere else, certainly in Australia. And I've been, lucky enough to travel a bit around the world and I've not seen him anywhere and I was out learning you know my traffic direction and this bloke pulled to the left with his right blinker on I said mate you can't turn right from left hand lane and he just pointed at the hook turn signal I looked up I've gone huh and I looked at him he goes you're not from Melbourne You guys all right?

Cool. There's a little lesson for you. Thanks, mate. So, oh, it's just bizarre. Uh, so we had a bit of time there, and then we headed off to what was the old traffic alcohol unit, squad, system, whatever it was, basically the boost buses. So we spent a month on the boost bus, just mostly around Metro Melbourne.

But a couple of country trips in there as well, where you just go in and shut down the road leading into or out of some place and, you know, just cycle people through. It's not a bad way to start as a career because you've got very small interactions with people, which is great. And then if you do get someone that goes over, then you've got the senior counsellor there, the, the, the tester to walk you through the interviews and things like that.

So, again, fun. You just want to be out. You spend five months in the academy. It's time to, you know, get this ball rolling sort of thing. So, and then from there, it's off to your station, wherever you get allocated to. Somewhere in Melbourne City, which is the biggest station CBD. And my first ever shift at the station, drug overdose death.

So day one, into it, which was quite bizarre, quite bizarre looking back on it. And how did you go with that? I went pretty good. I was fortunate enough that I was partnering up with this Jennifer police woman called Mandy Ashby and she was a constable, but she, a couple of years in. And she just took me under her wing and led me through it.

Uh, and there was a, there's another, and you talk about eye opening. So the, the deceased was there, the paramedics were working on another bloke who got him back. And there was the third bloke who was really wobbly. So they'd all taken, well, a taste as they call it, a taste of heroin out of the same syringe.

And it was obviously a bad batch. And it was a real eye opener, because then it showed me how powerful Erwin was, that, you know, like, that happened, so, Oh, mate, grabs it and has a taste as well. Mate, you've just seen your mate fall over. Uh, but there then Mandy, Mandy just debriefed me, took me under her wing and made sure I was alright with it and explained it and things like that and gave me a bit of space and time and checked in with me, so, Uh, that's, like, I was fine with it.

But to see her do that and experience that was really cool. Yeah, I've never forgotten it. We're still mates to this day, but I can recount that day for good reasons.

Rosie Skene: What year was this? Early 90s?

Mark Thomas: Yeah, 96, I graduated.

Rosie Skene: Did you stay in Melbourne? Are you still in Melbourne now?

Mark Thomas: Yeah, yeah, so I've never really ventured out. I went to, from Melbourne, I transferred to Collingwood, where my triggering incident occurred, which we'll talk about later, and then to the crime department as a detective. Which is in the city, and then to the Joint Counterterrorism Team, which is with the AFP, which is in the city, to, where do I go after that, to Melbourne East as a sergeant, which is in the city, to the Sex Offenders Registry for a bit, which is in the city.

Uh, then at Crime Stoppers for a few years and to where I am now within Intel, which is in the city. So, it's always been city or inner city. So, I would have liked to have experienced country policing at some stage, but, you know, life got in the way and it just never happened. And, well, I just won't do that now.

It's not something that I could do. Are you a city boy? I stuck with the big smoke. Sorry. Uh, raised in Geelong, so, yeah, just an hour out of town, so, an hour out of Melbourne, so, yeah, never been a country boy, but I do love, love the country. I've just come back, well not just back yesterday, after four days in the Victorian High Country for driving, which was just pure joyfulness.

Yeah. It's beautiful. Uber relaxing, just awesome.

Rosie Skene: Would you like to talk about your mental health journey?

Mark Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. So up until, so I graduated in October 96 and then, as I've already said, I've been went to, like every other Uniform member, we go to, you know, fatal accidents and, you know, drug overdoses, assaults, just general trauma. And I was always fine with it in the sense that it didn't have an impact on me. You know, like you certainly don't like going to these events, but there was no mental impact. Then the 8th of April, 2003, I got called to a different type of suicide. I hadn't been to this particular type before. And then I, when I looked at deceased, I actually felt it hit me in my chest, like as, as impact.

And then, you know, we, we finished off and did what we had to do there and back of the station, did the reports, et cetera. And, you know, sort of got on with the shift, but I knew something wasn't right. There's something about that day that I'm just thinking, yeah, I didn't. I didn't like that at all. But, you know, fair to say 2003, extremely naive and uneducated in mental health and being male in a sort of, you know, at that stage, really male dominated industry full of alpha males, not that I've never been an alpha male as such, but, you know, males, we don't do mental health well at the best of times.

So, did nothing about it. And over the course of the next 10 years, just short of 10 years, all these signs and symptoms of post traumatic stress, depression, anxiety, like presenting right in front of me face, but I just didn't see them.

Rosie Skene: And what were they for you, if you don't mind?

Mark Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, hyper, hypervigilance was big and my sleep patterns were horrible.

That was the only one that was really noticeable externally and my, my wife, Karen said, you need to see someone about your sleep patterns, they're horrible. And I said, well, I'm a shift worker. That's, you know, but I would throw off on that excuse, even when I had a period of time when I was eight to four, Monday to Friday, so essentially not a shift worker.

Yeah. So that's a white flag moment for me. So anytime Karen says, yeah, you know, I was right. Yep. I got nothing. I just got white flag. I surrender. You were right. I was wrong. But I'd go to work and across the road from the old St Kilda Road police complex was the, the tan. Botanical gardens. It's got a running track around.

It's really nice. I'd go over there most mornings and run around that or go the other side and run around Albert Park Lake. And then I started going, I can't be bothered to say that, you know, not doing things that you like to do, withdrawing from friends or not withdrawing from them. But you know, they'll be gone.

I would go on to, you know, some clubs and I were apart for a, for a meal, a parma, not a parmy as it's in New South Wales, uh, parma and a pot sort of thing. I just didn't want to go. I didn't want to be in crowds. I didn't want to be around people. Nightmares weren't a big thing for me, but flashbacks were, flashbacks were the one, so I'd, I'd nearly be asleep on the couch, and then I'd go to bed, and as soon as my head hit the pillow, my brain would go back to that day in April 2003, and like, like in full, you know, full HD resolution, there it is right in front of me, it's like I was transported back, and You're certainly not going to sleep without bouncing around in your head.

So, uh, I was good at work. I never presented with any real symptoms there cause I think I could just get to work, switch on. And away we go. But when I was in the city as a sergeant, you know, I'll be driving around and one of the crews will get a call to a set of 83s. So that's our call sign for a deceased person and my body would heat up and I didn't know it at the time, but you know, on site, on site reflections. Great. That was me having a little anxiety attack that there's a trauma and I, I have to go to it. So I think about all the little mini, anxiety attacks I was having along the way and slowly getting bigger and bigger and just didn't see any of it, which is, which is quite bizarre, really bizarre.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. I, I can definitely relate to a lot of those symptoms that you said that you had, especially the heating up of the body, which I didn't like you said in 2003, mental health literacy, wasn't a thing like. Even when I left in 2017, 2018, still wasn't really spoken about. And I actually Googled my symptoms because I was like, you know, something's not okay here. What's going on? And you know, put all your little symptoms in the Google and Dr. Google. I remember the anxiety and the heat that I used to feel across my chest all the time is definitely something that I can relate to.

And, like you, just pushed it aside. Yeah. Just sort of whipping.

Mark Thomas: Just didn't, like, subsequent down the track a bit, I was doing a course, a trauma course in Richmond. So I'd catch a train there, which was anxiety rising in itself, but better than driving. And I forgot my headphones one day, and I'm like, I've got to find something to do, or else I'm going to melt down. So I listed 22 things. That I was either doing that I didn't normally do or things that I didn't normally do that I was doing all tied to that event. So symptoms, yeah, 22 different things and I saw none of them, which is just like, I'm not the world's greatest copper, but I'm not the world's worst. And like, how did I not pick up on this?

Like, I don't, I don't lose any sleep over it. It is what it is. I missed it all. Okay, cool. So let's get loud and talk about it so other people can learn from, you know, learn from our mistakes. 100%. Yeah, 100%. So from, so you said it was nearly 10 years for that incident. Yeah. So I, it, I went to Nepal in 2019, which was for my 40th, something around that. Yeah. Around about that time. Well, I went there, but yeah, this would be my 40th present to go to Nepal because I always wanted to go there. And I got to about 4, 000 meters and just had the most epic anxiety attack. Like it was thought I was going to die in Nepal. And I'm thinking about how, how did I get my body home?

You know, how the kids are going to grow up without their dad. Like it was just. Like I, I did have a little bit of a giggle there, because I like to smile and laugh about it, because it's really bad memory, so we put a, put a bit of a flavour on it. It was, it was a really, okay, it was a wake up, and I remember, so I turned around and went and come home, and I'm saying all the way home, as soon as I get home, I'm going to book into CSI, so this is September 2012.

Okay. I'm going to see you, Soph. I've got to book in. I've got to book in. And I'll get home. I'll do that tomorrow. I'll do that tomorrow. And it just, I just didn't like. And again. I'll put a caveat on it like at this stage my mind was just so full of trauma and injured that okay, and then it got to February 2013 so February 10 I've worked at the cricket voluntary duties so working on a day off to get extra going like two small kids single wage So I get paid to watch cricket.

This is pretty cool. But I hated it. I hated being there. I hated the world. And I remember sitting on the boundary thinking, I don't want to be here. And then I just caught myself and I couldn't decide whether I don't want to be here at the cricket or I don't want to be here on earth. So, and I couldn't, Oh, okay.

That's problematic. And a little bit of the police brain started to sort of kick in a little bit going, Oh, hang on, dude, what's going on here? So I thought, yeah, yeah, this is bad juju. Then went home, went to bed, and I got home about 1145. Went to bed at 1155 and 1157. My first treating psychiatrist said I had a catastrophic loss of self, which is basically, and I hate these words 'cause I think they're really stigmatizing, but it's a mental breakdown.

I've gotta try and, you know, I think. As a community, we've got to come up with better words than a mental breakdown, because it's just, it's yucky, it's yucky, it's, I don't like it, but that's what people understand. Yeah. So that basically looks like me having no resilience, no self worth, just an inability to cope with anything, really, and it's just a complete shell of my former self. But then my, as I just mentioned, my police brain, I sort of took it as my normal human brain shut down. Yeah. But my policing brain kicked in, so that was sort of ruling what's going on here and I got my phone, woke Karen up, she's got no idea, so you can imagine the, what the hell's going on here. I said ring welfare on, I don't know what I said, but I remember saying just ring welfare unit, which was a really good decision.

So she rang welfare, basically give a spiel about what's going on and then the on call site rang me, we had a chat and she said, what are we going to do with you in a nice way? And I said, I remember saying, well, if I'm working and I come here and I speak to me, I'm off the hospital. So it's part of a small, but very exclusive club of coppers that are sectioned themselves. So, uh, I spent a couple of nights in Footscray Hospital and then down to Geelong Clinic, which is a specialist mental health clinic in Geelong for, I don't know, next week and a half or so. So, um, didn't feel safe at all, but because I did lose mum, I know it's like growing up without a parent, so suicide was never an option.

I certainly had thoughts. Rampant thoughts at that stage, but it's fair to say a fairly substantially seriously injured person, and that's where, you know, like, I maintain very powerfully that I wasn't sick. I'm not sick. I'm not ill. I'm injured. Yeah. Because it's a workplace injury. What happened to me?

Rosie Skene: You mentioned that your wife had to make that phone call to welfare.

Mark Thomas: Yeah.

Rosie Skene: Did she have any idea what was going on up until then?

Mark Thomas :Nothing? No. I mean, she, she noticed some changes, subtle changes here and there, but, and this is where when the injured brain and you know, for other people, you know, that generally have, they live with mental health conditions, your brain plays tricks on you. So I was protecting the kids from it. 100 percent and like over four and five or something at the time. So I've got no problem with that. And, but my brain was telling me I had to protect her from this. When she should have been the first person your brain said you need to tell her about this because this is this is going pear shaped So and that's my brain was very powerful on protecting her from it, which makes as I said completely no sense whatsoever Right it's playing tricks.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, I understand that I present really well. I don't know why, but it's just something. And even on my very worst days, I'd have a smile on my face and no one would know what's going on. And for me and my husband, so when I, you know, when it all came to a head for me, I was by myself, I was a single mom. My husband was off doing his defence force training. And he was at the start of it, so he didn't have his phone very much. And I remember one of the times that I did get to talk to him, I was like, you know,

I don't know, am I just stressed because you're not here and I'm dealing with these kids, you know, cause I had a baby and a four year old and a six year old.

Um, or is it, you know, something else? I don't know. Like, I'm just don't feel myself. And I was losing it at the kids. And that was so little and they didn't deserve it. And it was over like literally spilt milk, you know? And so those little things, you know, I felt like I was sort of hiding it well, but then when I thought back after I started getting treatment, especially, you know, maybe I wasn't so much and, you know, so. Yeah, I think we're very good, especially as police officers to put our feelings and emotions aside because that's our training and that's, you know, one of the first things that you get taught is when you go to a serious incident, you know, you sort of switch off everything and just do your job and that's sort of a survival technique.

Mark Thomas: Yeah, and it carries on.

Rosie Skene: It does. And it's, and it, like you said, you know, The people that you should confide in and tell what's going on, you sort of try and protect them because that's what you do with your work. Like you don't take your work home. And I think I can understand where you're coming from there and not telling her and trying to protect her and which is really sweet. But unfortunately for you, like it takes a long time to get the help that you need and the support at home.

Mark Thomas: Yeah, yeah. How did you go squaring away in your own mind, screaming at the kids and that for like over spilled milk? Because like for me, my daughter Maddie come up to me like she was tiny and she goes she wanted more milk in her Wheaties and I baked her. Like, it was just completely unbelievable that This little girl's milk to wheatie ratio was so far out that she drank all the milk and I look back on it and I've asked her about it. She doesn't remember it, which I'm hugely thankful for. I mean, we've spoken about it. She knows, like, because the kids are growing up with me, so they, and I'm very, very open about it with them.

We've talked about it, but I'm just unbelievably thankful that she does not remember that. Like, it's just completely irrational poor behaviour. Yeah. But then, that's what my brain was like at the time, like that wasn't me, that was my Mind your brain.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. I mean, I, the reason that I sought treatment was because of that, because I wasn't the mom that I ever thought I was going to be.

And they deserved better. They deserved a better parent. And because I was the only one, you know, I had to, I had to be better for them. And coming to that realization, because I decided at that time that I couldn't go back to work either, because I know that that's, Where the injury came from, and if I was ever going to get better, I couldn't keep being re traumatized.

Yeah. So, yeah, to answer the question, I felt shit about it, and knew that I had to be better. And I mean, it's a process, and I still sometimes when the cup's a little bit full, blow my top. I clean out the cobwebs with the kids if they get on top of me, but I mean, it's nowhere where it was before, like I've completely like a lot of therapy, a lot of yoga, a lot of breathing.

Um, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, self care techniques. Yeah. And just learning about myself and what sets me off and what I need to do to be a good parent, because at the end of the day, I don't want to miss it. I don't want to miss the kids growing up and, you know, and not having that relationship with them.

So, yeah, that, that behavior that I was exhibiting with the kids is the reason that I sought treatment. Yeah, so from, so were you admitted to hospital then, did you say?

Mark Thomas: Yeah, yeah, so I, down at Geelong Clinic, I was essentially involuntary. I wasn't allowed to leave without supervision. So, once, every morning at nine o'clock during the weekdays, but not on the weekends. We go and walk around the block and, but under supervision and it's like when the police brains taken over and you walk into a room and you start looking around and then you realize this is a suicide proof room and then you walk into the bathroom, you push down on the handles and they just fall out.

It's really confronting, really confronting. I knew at this stage it was the best place for me because I was obviously in a significantly bad place. But yeah, once you, you realize. Okay, this is, this isn't good. This is bad, this is bad news, bad as heck. So, and then especially, you know, like the Friday night.

So they had a joint clinic and it happens at our clinics, people sort of external educators coming. And there's someone would come in and talk about fitness and body movement, how important it is, because it has this effect on your body. It releases this chemical and this hormone that makes you feel good.

It's a natural high. All right, cool. Dietitian comes in, you know, this is really good, blah, blah, blah. Yep. Cool. mindfulness. It's the first time I've ever heard of the word. And I said, cool, I'll give it a go and sort of mindfulness and meditation. And she actually, she put me to sleep. I was that relaxed and like, okay, this actually works.

Like I got a really quick lesson. Ideally, I wasn't meant to fall asleep, but I did. Yeah. And then on the Friday, that was on a Friday and I felt, I thought I'd bottomed out. But then I started to feel worse. Just, Going further down the rabbit hole, so to speak, and that's right, she said, if you're feeling bad, go and have a really hot shower, not so it scalds you, or a pure cold shower on the back of your neck, and just concentrate on the water, and I thought, I can do that, I love a hot shower, so I go in, but they haven't got hot water in site clinics, because they can self harm, so it's, it's slightly above lukewarm, at best, So my foot and cold water, forget it.

Massive sook I'm still trying to get into this cold shower thing, but I can't do it. Too much of the sook um, so I found myself sitting on the floor. And I was past crying too. It's not too sad. I don't want to say it was sad. Because like I can't explain the level of mental pain. Like it was a galactic level of mental pain and I don't like I've been talking about it for years and I still haven't been able to come up the words that suitably describe what it felt like just sitting in sitting against the wall just in this pain and I realized then it was hugely powerful like This is why people take their lives, because it's just not sustainable to live in this amount of pain.

Now, Joe's got a bug flimbing in my eye. And I thought, and I remember thinking, okay, not good, but supportive family, supportive work. I've made a snap decision I'm never drinking alcohol again, and I haven't. Like, I've got so many factors around me. I've got this massive protective bubble. I've got to get through this, but I'll be okay.

Look, it took me 10 minutes to. Get off the floor, dry dress, get into bed and call a nurse, but I still constantly remind myself of that feeling of sitting down there and feeling that pain because there is no singular greater motivator to look after myself and, you know, practice the best self care I can do to say to the best of my abilities, I never go back to that, that, that, that time because it's just, it's just It's horrific, just horrific, and I understand why people ultimately take their lives.

It is that not being able to see past it, isn't it? Yeah. Thank God for you that you did have that glimmer that you knew it's not an option for you. Yeah. And that's, it's a really strange place to be in because at that stage, I didn't want to live either. But I can't, I can't take my life. Yeah. But I don't want to live.

So where does that, where am I sitting? What am I doing? Fortunately, I went to sleep, had some, a nurse come in and she was really good. She knew straight up. I walked in previous conversations with her. There was a fair bit of black humour being used, which are, I loved like throughout the whole process, don't cuddle me, just tell me what I've got to do.

I don't need warm and fuzzy. I just need to be told. And she walked in and I'm in bed and like suitably, it'd be interesting to see what I looked like. It wouldn't have been, well, I certainly didn't look like a healthy person. And she just had a big smile on her face. Yeah, you look real good. Which was perfection at the time.

Yeah. And then, you know, I had a bit of, she gave me, I was unmedicated at that stage. I didn't want to try medication. I want to see how far I could take it first. Uh, and she said, look, can I give you a valium? It's It's not psych medication as such, it's just a muscle relaxant that will help you calm down.

And she could have said, I would have taken anything to get out of that pain at that stage, so had one of those, and then drifted off to sleep pretty quick. Austin Powers, gold member, was on TV, and some funny things he remembered.

 And then I'll wake up next morning and I felt. That little bit better. I was out of that real critical zone and I felt, you know, okay, you know, still entirely trash, but better than the day before. And I remember ringing Karen saying, I need to see you and I need to see the kids, which was the first time in, I can't remember, I like, I had to see him, like I really needed it. So. And like the, the night before I was hospitalized, I sat between, between the two beds and I like, my brain was telling me I love them and you know, they can have my heart tomorrow if they need it, but I didn't have any physical feeling for them. I just completely disassociated. So that was a real, a real positive punch to the system.

That I needed to see him and I really enjoyed the time with him before it started to get overwhelming. And all right, cool. We're on a recovery mode here and continued recovery ever since.

Rosie Skene: Yeah. That's beautiful that you love your family so much that they had to come and see. It's yeah, it's so important.

And you said that you had that protective bubble, um, around you too, of support, which some people just don't have. So, um, and, I, I feel intensely sorry for people who haven't got that support because you need it. You need the people to pick you up when you crash down and look after you and things like that.

One thing that you did say that was in your protective bubble was work, which is not true. Often the case, I know that you're still serving, um, and I would love to hear about how that journey is for you, because it's not something that a lot of people on this podcast have, have done is gone back and, you know, I've put myself in that group because I just couldn't. So I find it so intriguing that you did. Do you want to, can you talk about that?

Mark Thomas: So I. I, you know, with respect to every other detective senior sergeant that ever served in the, in the forces around the country, I've got, I, well, I had, he's a different work unit now, but I had the best one, like, just an unbelievably empathetic, brilliant, smart leader, complete knock around, like, we got along like house on fire before I, before this happened, and then, you know, like, after I returned to work, It was made very clear that I'm controlling my return to work, so when I feel ready to increase hours, I'll increase hours.

So I started off on two hours, four hours on a Tuesday and four hours on a Thursday. And then I'd go and say, all right, cool, I'm, I want to increase now. And I'd go and he's off and say, right mate, I'm off to see the site, I'm going to increase me hours. And he, he would question me whether I was right to do that.

Whereas so many others get, well, about time. Yeah, get the hurry up. Yeah, I'm not sure about that, like really, hang on, let's pump the brakes on this a little bit. But probably the best, the best one, and this is one of my favourite memories, I'll be, um, I was down at the bottom of St Kilda Road, on the, talking to someone, I can't remember what happened, but I got, like, very well treated.

And in, if that hadn't happened the previous week, I just would have gone home, gone home to the safety of home and just ride out the Trigger and I thought, I'm going to try and get through it. So I went upstairs, I walked into his office and I said, mate, I've been Triggered and he goes, yeah, I can see it, but I, I, I want to try and stay here and get through it. Do what you got to do. All right, we got you. Just do what you got to do. And then I'm sitting at my desk and like where I sat, he was in the office behind me and there's a wall, but then just out of me peripheral vision, I say his head just peered around the corner, just checking on me. And like, he doesn't remember that.

You talk about an unbelievably powerful thing to do for me to sit there knowing that he's, he's got me covered. He's my safety blanket. Like he's, yeah, well, if it wasn't for him, I would have been ill all the time. That's, that's, That's not a maybe, that's a absolutely, that would have happened, so still, you know, great mates, he's in a work unit within where I work. But just a different different office. So yeah, forever thankful and along completely along the journey. Every step is, you know, every increase of hours. You sure you're right to do this. All right, cool. If you need something, let me know. Things like that. So excuse me. So yeah, champion bloke. I'm unfortunately the probably the exception, not the norm.

And that's, you know, that's a lot to do with education, mental health education, some people being Yeah. Not really buying into the mental health idea. And like, I'm very much of the opinion that we broke these people. So we need to get these people better if we can with every way. And, um, he's one, just a sublime human being. And I'm still there now, still working. I love my job. I've got a great job within Intel COVID support command. We've got a couple off at the moment, but you know, because he, The way he treated me, I've been able to stay there and now I'm helping these other people return to work and helping them through their journey.

But if he didn't do that, I'm at home ill, ill health retired and these other people aren't having that assistance. So like the flow and effect is, is quite substantial.

Rosie Skene: And what a lesson that one person does make a difference.

Mark Thomas: Oh, huge, huge. And that's where people need to understand that. Like what you said there's really, really important.

Like you don't, you don't have to change it well for someone, but just small little things. It can completely change the whole outcome for people. 100%. Yeah. And like you said, the flow on effect, not only do you get the support that you need, but that you can learn from what he did for you and pass that on to other people.

Rosie Skene: It's so powerful. And hopefully that's the attrition rates of cops at the moment, nationwide and probably worldwide, to be honest, not real good. people like him and managers like that, for any managers that are listening, that that's how you do it and that's how you get people in and that's how you keep your teams together is supporting them when they need it.

Mark Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. It's just, uh, I don't think I can think of anyone higher that I've met in 28 years in Victoria Police. Just a jet of a bloke. And obviously, as I said, I owe him, I owe him my career. I'm hugely thankful and grateful that I met him. I got to work under him and exceptionally clever as well. So I've learned so much from him and yeah, I'm, well, I'm, I'm acutely aware how lucky I am.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, absolutely. Other than, excuse me, other than the support at home and at work, what do you do to help your mental health journey? What are the things that you put in place to help yourself?

Mark Thomas: Well, no, alcohol was the first one. I was never alcohol dependent, but I just, you know what, that's an easy one.

Take that out of the equation. I used to love strawberry flavoured yogurt. But that's got loaded with sugar. So now I just have Greek yogurt. Yes. It's slightly more boring, but I have strawberries in the Greek yogurt. And you put the strawberries in it. Yeah. So like my, my diet isn't like someone who's an Olympic athlete, but I, I removed a lot of food and I changed my life.

If I'm down at Geelong seeing the family and I'm driving back up and I'm hungry. Whereas the old me would just dive into McDonald's, load it up on Big Moog, Big Mooger, Big Mac, you know, fries, nuggets and a coke or something. I'll just go, no, bad decision. Keep driving. I'll wait till I get home, have some fruit and yogurt or you know, something half healthy.

Ride to work or run to work. Just the body movement, half an hour or so, mindfulness, meditation, I should do more of it, I know that, but I just, for some reason I don't, but I was very, you know, sitting in the high country there last week, I was very, very mindful, that everywhere was just chilled out, just having that knowledge.

Uh, self care is high. So if I, bit of a cliche, but self care isn't selfish. So if I want to be the best father, husband, you know, worker, I've got to make sure I'm right before I worry about anyone else. So if I don't want to do something, I'm thinking, yeah, that's no, I don't see any reason why I need to do that.

Then I just won't do it. And then I'm getting better at saying no, where I used to just say yes to everything. So that, that's a skill in itself. And I'm still, I've got the L plates on, I'm getting better, but I certainly haven't got me full saying no license yet. So yeah. It's that's tricky. Yeah. Putting some country back.

Yes. I learned from like, and getting to know people and you know, like Tiff Cook runs a podcast role with your punches. She's awesome. I've learned lots from her. Craig Harper come up with a couple of ones. He talks about your operating system and your default settings. And like you, I hear a lot of stuff and I go, that's cool, that's cool.

But I really latched onto those. So like my operating system was changed because of what happened to me and my default settings is I want to go home from work. I want to stay home and I don't want to see anyone and I just want to watch footy or cricket or watch a movie and go to bed. I don't want any social contact. That's my default setting, but I know that's not healthy. So I know I've got to override that to make sure that I do those things. And like there's a group of dads that we catch up with every six or eight weeks or so. And I'll get home. I don't want to go, but then I'll just go. I'll go have a shower. I don't want to go and I'll get changed.

I don't want to go. I'll get in the car. I don't want to go and then I'll go and I'll have this awesome night, which I do every time. And then I'll come home and I go, I'm glad I went. So my default setting is don't do it. But now I've learned to override that and make sure I do go. So talking, talking about it.

Love talking about it. I don't know. Yes, it does. You know, it raises the anxiety a bit. You know, other times more than others, just depending on how much sleep I've had or where me, where me health's at. So basically anything I can do is all geared towards, does it help me? Yeah, cool. All right, let's do it.

Rosie Skene: That's great. Like what you said about meditation, I'm picked up on that because a lot of COPS, I don't teach meditation like in inverted commas because it's, it's hard for us to, you know, sit still or, you know. Lay still and focus on this and do that and I think a mindfulness meditation in inverted commas is a much better thing for us to do because we can be active while we do it and it's not so forced and that's something that I've, I've really enjoyed and I did an eight week course earlier in this year.

To deepen my practice a little bit and yeah, it's, it was amazing. So the mindfulness is really something that's helped me along as well. But self care, you can't, you can't give from an empty cup, you know, like you've got to fill up your own cup and then let that flow onto other people. So it's, it takes a lot of self awareness though. But that's something to learn over your journey.

Mark Thomas: Yeah. Like early on, I had zero capability of doing anything other than just looking after me. That was the full time job for me. And then, you know, if someone said, Oh, can you, can you go deliver this food? Yep. And without even thinking about it, like, so it's that, it's that evolution of yourself when you start to like, when the treatment, be that EMDR or I did prolonged exposure therapy and CBT, once that really starts kicking in and you start to recover, that's where you, you know, like it's an evolution.

It's, it's. that continuous improvement where, you know, the things I was doing, you know, two years ago, I don't do now, whatever that might be. I still might, I still might, I don't know, but it's just what's best for me today to do today to continue to recover and improve. Sometimes it's hard to say that you have improved, I think, unless you look back on your journey and the people that might be listening, you know, it can seem pointless some days to, you know, Take the shower, go for the walk, you know, just those little things that you have to do for yourself and, and go see your friends that you, you know, you keep telling yourself that you don't want to go, but those things really can help.

And, and it's so important to, to really take care of yourself. And it's not selfish. It's not selfish at all. People think, you know, by me saying no to a friend to do something because I want to go for a walk along the beach, oh, that's really selfish of me. No, it's not. That's elite level self care. That's really cool.

You know what? You'll catch up with your friend another day.

Rosie Skene: I like that. Elite level. Um, that's good. You know, what I've started doing is not giving excuses. Like I just say, sorry, I'm not available for that. And I don't need to give an explanation every time of why I can't do something. Yeah. Just don't worry.

You just, yeah. I'm sorry. Why should I? Why should I feel as if I have to give some kind of excuse?

Mark Thomas: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. I love that.

Rosie Skene: I know that you have the Code 9 Foundation. I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about that and how that came about in your journey.

Mark Thomas: Yeah, so I felt intensely alone in hospital. I'm thinking no one could possibly know what I'm going through, which is obviously a complete bit of rubbish because a lot of people do. But I thought in there, when I get back to work full time, which was a complete bluff because I didn't actually think I'd work again, I'm going to start a small little support group for coppers.

So if they're, if they're sitting in hospital, then we can go in and go, hey mate, Been here, done that. You're good. When you get out, we'll, we'll meet up. Just so people know that they've got some friends that know what shoes they're walking in. So after return to work, took two and a half years, got back to work full time, started my little support group that extended to paramedics because I had some paramedic mates and Fireys, firey mates and triple zero operators.

And then we'd meet around, you know, various places around the state once a, once a month. And it was really cool because we'd have, I don't know, 10, 15 people in a room. We're all, you know, the black humour, we're all mad. So we're all normal. Okay. That's cool. So it was just, it was really good. COVID, you know, we haven't kicked them off post COVID, but then a mate Rob come along, well he wasn't a mate then, I knew who he was.

And then he had since installed Jimmy and we just smashed him for three hours about questions about Jimmy. And then a couple of times I was out with Rob one day, I saw Rob get triggered and then just watch Jimmy, this, this Labrador just go to work. And I'm like, whoa, like incredible to watch. And it's funny when I've, I've presented a couple of times in like coppers know what I'm doing, but in sort of private industry and I say, guess the point you nearly want to deliberately trigger Rob just so you can see Jimmy and people's faces are just horrified.

Joking. Joking. I'm not going to deliberately trigger a mate. And we were sitting around one night, we said, well, how about we register as a charity to raise money for these dogs. So we did. Somehow, three knucklehead coppers, all mentally injured, and a few other people. So yeah, we registered to become the Code Nine Foundation. And from there it's just continued to, to bloom and blossom and we do a whole range of things now like we're happy from the word go, we're always about the member, but equally their partner and their kids. So the partner and the kids don't choose to have, to be, you know, to have a father or a mother or a, you know, wife or a husband that's got post traumatic stress and all the things associated symptoms go with it.

So. We look closely at them. We put on a couple of partner days, just education days where we get them along and, you know, a whole range of speakers just geared towards them to help them. We've got some really cool stuff coming out for kids later this year. Super secret sort of stuff at the moment, so can't really talk about it, but I'll let you know when it's, when we're ready to launch. But yeah, with the part, with the members, you know, we've delivered it. I know some around 1, 200, 1, 300 meals to a whole range of members who are just, their anxiety is that high, they can't even leave the house. Alright, let the food come to you. Sending members away on respite weekends, it's not a financial thing, they could probably afford it, but it's It's telling them, we see you, we acknowledge you, we validate you, just go have a break, which is really cool.

We've delivered firewood a few times for people that are stressed and anxieties off the charts, we've got you covered. Um, a couple of footy, you know, there was a, One particular triple zero operator, a lot of stuff going on. Two sons, major long supporters. Cool. So I just went to the Opel shop and got a new footy jumpers and sent them down.

Just put a smile on their face. So people say, what sort of criteria got, well, we haven't got one. If we can financially achieve it to put a smile on her face and help someone out, we'll do it. So, um, pretty much, you know, like we were talking before this about emergency with, uh, Pena and Alana and, you know, it's the same, it's the same setup.

We're both purely volunteer run. No one gets paid. All the donations go directly to member welfare and well being and, you know, Looking out for the partners and kids and that, so seeing that blossom and bloom, it's, it's cool to watch, but like my brain doesn't allow me to feel pride, like a lot, like it's just, it's just, now I don't know whether that's something I could, well, I do have to continually work on my brain with the self care, but it's very rare that I feel pride in, in pretty much anything.

So. But it has been really cool to watch this grow and the people that have jumped in on the committee to help out and, um, other people that have done things, you just go, yeah, that's awesome. Like Kate, Victoria Police member, Winterlerin Pinter, um, took a heap of people there, they all got together and raised, you know, 60, 000 a couple of years ago for us, and like, I'm just sitting back going.

You'd do that for us like it's like, wow, so some more sponsored a few assistance dogs. We've got a few more in the pipeline. So I'm going they're not cheap. They're not cheap. So and that's where like there's the like for me, there's three categories of dog. You've properly trained accredited assistance dog, which is your Rolls Royce of your Ferrari level dog, which they save lives.

Literally save lives. And then you got that middle one, which is a companion dog that's got a little bit of training, but they'll pick up on anxieties quicker than just your pet sort of thing. And then you got dogs like mine, like a pet, which, you know, she's great. We have fun throwing the ball in that.

Like it's been times when I've been a little bit down, she'll come up, she'll probably recognize it a bit and snuggle up a bit. But when you see. These elite level dogs at work. I mean, this is seriously mind blowing just how incredible they are. So, um, now we've got, you know, some pretty big plans for the future where we're trucking along all right.

Again, it's the, you know, the finding the positives out of, uh, negative situations. So, you know, that's certainly not all, it's not all me. You know, we've got some very talented people that help us out like Rob, particularly Rob and his wife, Christy. Yeah, it's. Yeah, there's a lot of goodness that's come out of that time I was sitting on the bathroom floor in the Geelong Clinic, not wanting to leave and realizing why people suicide, but it's been a fair bit that's happened since, for the good.

Yeah, just a couple of things.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, so how, when did you start the CODE9 Foundation? When did you start?

Mark Thomas: The support group started in June 2015. And then we were registered as a charity on the 1st of April, 2018. So yeah, we're just over six years old now. So we're still quite young. It's, you know, we're still learning, finding our way with a few things, but it's. Yeah, we've had a pretty good effect on a fair few people now, so, which is really cool.

Rosie Skene: Yeah, that's so beautiful. And is it a member, so you have to become a member of the Code9 Foundation? Is that, how does that work?

Mark Thomas: No, it's, so we run a private Facebook group for members and another one for partners. And you know, police Facebook groups are pretty toxic dumps usually, but the way we conduct our group is like, there's probably, I think, six or seven of us adminning it.

There's just no, no negativity. There's no bashing organizations. It's about support advice. I've got an IME coming up in independent medical examination with Dr. Bill blogs. Yep. I had him. He was really good. Blah, blah, cool. So, okay. You know, I'm heading into the Geelong clinic for a change of medication.

What's the advice. Take this, take this, take this. You'll need this. You'll need that. So then people are aware. Okay. I need that. Probably one of the coolest stories. It's a couple of years ago now, but it's kind of happens regularly where people go, or this particular night, ill health retired police woman posted late at night.

I'm having a really bad night. I'm safe. I'm not, I'm not going to self harm, but I'm just in a really bad place at the moment. Say, yep, cool. That can go through because it goes through an authorization process. Cause you know, we have got an element and we'll sit there and they'll post. Anti this, anti that, but no one sees it until we authorize it.

We just delete. That's not going through. And then I got up the next day and there was 220 replies. And there's just a whole stack of people going, Yep, I'm having a shit one too. We'll get through this together. Yep, I'm actually in a really good place at the moment, but I'm going to sit with you until we get through this. And it was just, Bang, bang, bang, bang, just kept engaged all night long and then she posted the next night saying, thanks everyone had my site today. I feel a lot better. Really appreciate and I'm just like, yes, like, yes, thank you. Thank you. And I think actually did post after that saying, thanks everyone.

Hugely appreciate your input there. So. That happens to that extent that doesn't happen often, but it happens a bit. It happens a bit. So, and then like, we've got a post that I put up every Saturday is what's your weekly win. It can be small, big, don't matter. What was your wind? So then, you know, that always pretty lights up.

I know it's four o'clock on Saturday because my main phone just starts lighting up notifications. So, but it's cool. It's really good. So, so we've got that side thing and the partners, we do stuff with them and we tap into them as well and go, well, what do you want? What can we do for you? Because I'm not a partner, I'm a new sufferer, that word.

So what, what do you need and don't let us know.

Rosie Skene: Sorry to interrupt you, but that is so important because they get forgotten. Thank you. They do. In the system of everything, like, as the injured person, generally you get looked after with your appointment and your psychologist and all that sort of stuff.

They do what they are supposed to do there, but your partner and your kids really get just left behind, really. And they have to take care of themselves. So that work there that you're doing with partners and kids is so needed.

Mark Thomas: Yeah. And like a couple of things we got done later this year. It's just so awesome. So awesome. I'll let you know.

Rosie Skene: I can't wait to hear about it. Just seeing you talk about that. And mentioning that woman that was having a tough night and her getting the support that she needed from the community that you have created with other people, but you've created that and then thinking back to the start of this conversation and me asking you why you joined the police and you said you wanted to help people. Do you sometimes think that maybe you went through and are going through what you have? for this reason is to support other people?

Mark Thomas: Yes, but like people go do you believe in fate. No. Do you think, do you think things happen for a reason? I'm a real solid no. Yeah. Things happen. Yeah. Like you tell me, and this is where, like if someone wants to argue for it, you tell me why I lost my mum.

Well, it was to create this feeling within you because then you can do this. It's pretty hard to argue against. Yeah, but I don't believe that. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, it, it is the fact that, you know, I, I, I am intensely an intense rule with me is that any negative that happens, you must find a positive outta that no matter how small, how big.

And then if we can create, I'll kick it off. But if we can create a community here that just helps people, Hey, everyone wins. Unfortunately, there's a few people in there that still think I'm only doing it just to be promoted or get a medal, which, okay, go figure, you know, I'm, I'm nearly 10 years in. I haven't got anything yet, but go me.

Yeah. We'll always have those people though. They have tall poppy syndrome, they like to knock people down, but won't help anyone themselves. So you get that. But that's, yeah, that's, that's the very, very tiny little small smidgen of negativity that sits in the corner amongst all these amazing people that just.

Jump in and help each other out because they're part of the community, which is, which is really cool. And then equally seeing some of the conversations that unwind within that partners group and the way they speak and things like that. I mean, it's really good education for me. Yeah. Um, but you know, like nothing gets reported back either way.

But just seeing how they respond and they help each other out and things with advice and that, I'm just going, yeah, that's way cool. I wish we didn't have to do this, then none of this existed, but it does. So. What controls, what assistance, what, what can we put around it to make things a smidgen better for them.

So when those events occur, it's, it's pretty cool sitting back watching them online.

Rosie Skene: That's so amazing that you've created that community for both parties, for the workers and for their families, I think. Congratulations.

Mark Thomas: Thank you.

Rosie Skene: Where can people find you? On Facebook.

Mark Thomas: Um, Facebook and Instagram is both SGT, it's Sergeant Mark Thomas, but just SGT. Same with me. Twitter or now X, LinkedIn. I think it's the same. Yeah, I think it's the same on that as well. Sergeant Mark Thomas, SGT. And then the foundation, just Google Code 9 PTSD and all of our Facey and Insta and all of that, all that pops up as well. So. Yeah.

Rosie Skene: Awesome. I'll have all that in the show notes for anyone that wants to check either yourself out or the Code Nine Foundation and get some more information there. To wrap up, is there anything that you would like to say to people that might be doing it a little bit tough at the moment? You got anything to say to them?

Mark Thomas: And it's, I mean, I can say a million things, but there's hope. There's always hope. And even on your worst days. You're going to wake up, have a snooze, or if you can't sleep at some stage, if you do the right things and you help yourself, you can recover.

It's not, you know, and I've dropped a couple of cliches here, but Another one, you know, like suicide's the, you know, the most critical decision you'll ever make when you are least capable of making that decision. So, don't let stigma rule. Put your hand up. You know, it's not weak. That's what people say to me.

If I said you're weak, no worries, mate. We'll walk a mile in my shoes and see if you have the same outcome. But, just hope. Yeah. Don't give up. Don't ever give up. Yeah.

Rosie Skene: Thank you so much for coming on, Mark. I've really enjoyed the conversation with you. And I thank you so much for being so open and honest in everything as well. So thank you so much.

Rosie Skene: Thanks for having me Rosie. I'm very much appreciated. And this is what I've said it before. Like I can go stand on my roof and scream and yell from the rooftops, but when people like yourself have these awesome podcasts and give me a platform to have a chat, And really enjoyable chat, then that's, you know, we're pushing out this message that it's, you know, it's okay. There's plenty of us about that function quite well, and we all, we live with, you know, I live with three different mental health conditions, so I'm functioning quite well, so I can be done. Oh, you've got four. I got four. You got me. So which one is, we got seven, and we're functioning quite well, and we're, you know, doing plenty of things, so.

Rosie Skene: We're doing it, we're doing it.

Mark Thomas: Yeah, so thanks heaps, really appreciate your time.

Rosie Skene: Oh, you're so welcome, thanks again.

OUTRO:

  I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. If you have, make sure to hit subscribe so you never miss any new ones. We release fresh content every Tuesday. And while you're there, take a moment to leave us a review. I would genuinely appreciate your thoughts. Don't forget to connect with me on Instagram and Facebook at Tactical Yoga Australia and share this episode with your friends, family and workmates to spread inspiration.

Your support means the world. My name is Rosie Skeen, join me again next week for another empowering and positive episode of Triumph Beyond Trauma. Until then, be kind to your mind and trust in the magic of your consistent and positive efforts. Triumph Beyond your trauma is closer than you think. Have the best week.